Talk:Brick - Revision history

J. J.: Jaggions moved page Talk:Bricked to Talk:Brick: See talk

2015-12-13T20:53:02Z

Jaggions moved page Talk:Bricked to Talk:Brick: See talk

Dialexio: /* Page name */

2015-12-12T23:02:11Z

‎Page name

J. J.: Page name

2015-12-12T18:48:35Z

Page name

Mwoolweaver at 06:37, 23 February 2015

2015-02-23T06:37:28Z

Mwoolweaver at 06:37, 23 February 2015

2015-02-23T06:37:02Z

Britta: the advantages of social methods

2015-02-23T03:40:03Z

the advantages of social methods

Awesomebing1: Misspelled it, thanks autocorrect

2015-02-23T03:14:21Z

Misspelled it, thanks autocorrect

Awesomebing1: Reply

2015-02-23T03:08:45Z

Britta: linking draft of human algorithm

2015-02-23T02:58:44Z

linking draft of human algorithm

Britta: suggestion for writing "human algorithm"

2015-02-23T01:48:04Z

suggestion for writing "human algorithm"

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:02, 12 December 2015
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	== Page name ==		== Page name ==
	I think we should rename this page to "Brick", "iOS device bricking", or something like that. --[[User:Jaggions\|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions\|talk]]) 18:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)		I think we should rename this page to "Brick", "iOS device bricking", or something like that. --[[User:Jaggions\|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions\|talk]]) 18:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
		+	:Agreed; [[Brick]] sounds appropriate to me. --[[User:Dialexio\|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio\|talk]]) 23:02, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:48, 12 December 2015
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	:::Yeah, there's no foolproof technical method, and giving people a technical method may even give them a false sense of security. This is a case where a social method can be more effective than a technical method. The first time somebody reports that they installed a package that actually bricked their device (not just an ordinary bootloop that can be solved by going into no-Substrate mode or doing a DFU restore), there will be a ton of news and investigation of that report in the social system that jailbreakers use - blogs, forums, Twitter, and so on. I believe that staying in touch with that social system, and learning how to better estimate whether a tweak/developer/repository is trustworthy, can be a more effective defense against bad packages. [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 03:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		:::Yeah, there's no foolproof technical method, and giving people a technical method may even give them a false sense of security. This is a case where a social method can be more effective than a technical method. The first time somebody reports that they installed a package that actually bricked their device (not just an ordinary bootloop that can be solved by going into no-Substrate mode or doing a DFU restore), there will be a ton of news and investigation of that report in the social system that jailbreakers use - blogs, forums, Twitter, and so on. I believe that staying in touch with that social system, and learning how to better estimate whether a tweak/developer/repository is trustworthy, can be a more effective defense against bad packages. [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 03:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	== Page name ==
		+	I think we should rename this page to "Brick", "iOS device bricking", or something like that. --[[User:Jaggions\|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions\|talk]]) 18:48, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 ::Maybe a "trusted sources" page should be created somewhere, including repos that are from trusted developers that have released a certain number of tweaks on the official repos, this creates a place where users can be sure that the repo that they're adding is secure. --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 01:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
-:::There is a very large list {http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/escapeplan/repolist here] that could be used to as a reference [[User:Mwoolweaver|MWoolweaver]] ([[User talk:Mwoolweaver|talk]]) 06:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
+:::There is a very large list [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/escapeplan/repolist here] that could be used to as a reference [[User:Mwoolweaver|MWoolweaver]] ([[User talk:Mwoolweaver|talk]]) 06:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 :::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 :Yeah, that doesn't really protect people, so it's not super useful to recommmend. In general I believe this page is mostly helpful as a technical reference for people curious about how bricking works instead of as a user guide for avoiding it. :) The user advice would mostly be "avoid installing stuff from repositories and developers you don't trust", with maybe some explanation for how to determine which repositories and developers to trust. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 ::Maybe a "trusted sources" page should be created somewhere, including repos that are from trusted developers that have released a certain number of tweaks on the official repos, this creates a place where users can be sure that the repo that they're adding is secure. --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 01:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 :::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:40, 23 February 2015
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	:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
	::I was thinking that we could add some functionality to dpkg that checks if the package modifies/uses the nvram binary. Of course, they may create a LaunchAgent or something that runs something that modifies it too, so then we would have to add a grep search for the word nvram. But, then again, it could be base64 encrypted, etc, so these checks would not be foolproof. --[[User:Awesomebing1\|Awesomebing1]] ([[User talk:Awesomebing1\|talk]]) 03:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		::I was thinking that we could add some functionality to dpkg that checks if the package modifies/uses the nvram binary. Of course, they may create a LaunchAgent or something that runs something that modifies it too, so then we would have to add a grep search for the word nvram. But, then again, it could be base64 encrypted, etc, so these checks would not be foolproof. --[[User:Awesomebing1\|Awesomebing1]] ([[User talk:Awesomebing1\|talk]]) 03:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::Yeah, there's no foolproof technical method, and giving people a technical method may even give them a false sense of security. This is a case where a social method can be more effective than a technical method. The first time somebody reports that they installed a package that actually bricked their device (not just an ordinary bootloop that can be solved by going into no-Substrate mode or doing a DFU restore), there will be a ton of news and investigation of that report in the social system that jailbreakers use - blogs, forums, Twitter, and so on. I believe that staying in touch with that social system, and learning how to better estimate whether a tweak/developer/repository is trustworthy, can be a more effective defense against bad packages. [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 03:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision	Revision as of 20:53, 13 December 2015
(No difference)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:14, 23 February 2015
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	:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
−	::I was thinking that we could add some functionality to dpkg that checks if the package modifies the nvram binary. Of course, they may create a LaunchAgent or something that runs something that modifies it too, so then we would have to add a grep search for the word nvram. But, then again, it could we base64 encrypted, etc, so these checks would not be foolproof. --[[User:Awesomebing1\|Awesomebing1]] ([[User talk:Awesomebing1\|talk]]) 03:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)	+	::I was thinking that we could add some functionality to dpkg that checks if the package modifies/uses the nvram binary. Of course, they may create a LaunchAgent or something that runs something that modifies it too, so then we would have to add a grep search for the word nvram. But, then again, it could be base64 encrypted, etc, so these checks would not be foolproof. --[[User:Awesomebing1\|Awesomebing1]] ([[User talk:Awesomebing1\|talk]]) 03:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:08, 23 February 2015
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	:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
		+	::I was thinking that we could add some functionality to dpkg that checks if the package modifies the nvram binary. Of course, they may create a LaunchAgent or something that runs something that modifies it too, so then we would have to add a grep search for the word nvram. But, then again, it could we base64 encrypted, etc, so these checks would not be foolproof. --[[User:Awesomebing1\|Awesomebing1]] ([[User talk:Awesomebing1\|talk]]) 03:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:58, 23 February 2015
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	::Maybe a "trusted sources" page should be created somewhere, including repos that are from trusted developers that have released a certain number of tweaks on the official repos, this creates a place where users can be sure that the repo that they're adding is secure. --[[User:Haifisch\|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch\|talk]]) 01:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		::Maybe a "trusted sources" page should be created somewhere, including repos that are from trusted developers that have released a certain number of tweaks on the official repos, this creates a place where users can be sure that the repo that they're adding is secure. --[[User:Haifisch\|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch\|talk]]) 01:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

−	:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own - the ~~steps~~ ~~could~~ be ~~something~~ ~~like~~ ~~this~~:	+	:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own. I started a draft of this on the /r/jailbreak wiki (since TheiPhoneWiki doesn't really do user guides): [http://www.reddit.com/r/jailbreak/wiki/howtoresearch "How to research a tweak"] [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
−	:::# When you google the name and/or nickname of the developer (or search for it on Reddit, Twitter, and so on), do you find a Twitter account and other information showing that they interact with other developers and jailbreak community members and generally have a good reputation online? That can be a good sign. It can also be a good sign if they seem to use their real name as well as a nickname, since that means they've tied their real-life reputation to their development work.
−	:::# Is the tweak in a default repository? If it's not in a default repository, is it on the developer's own repository, as verified by their Twitter account or website or other information provided by the developer? If it's in the developer's own repository, have they released tweaks on a default repository?
−	:::# Does the tweak make big claims about what it can do, such as hugely reducing your battery use, saving you tons of disk space, or something else that sounds very difficult to do on a technical level? You should research a tweak more thoroughly if it makes big or complex-sounding claims.
−	:::# ...and so on.
−	:::[[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:48, 23 February 2015
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	:Yeah, that doesn't really protect people, so it's not super useful to recommmend. In general I believe this page is mostly helpful as a technical reference for people curious about how bricking works instead of as a user guide for avoiding it. :) The user advice would mostly be "avoid installing stuff from repositories and developers you don't trust", with maybe some explanation for how to determine which repositories and developers to trust. [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 23:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)		:Yeah, that doesn't really protect people, so it's not super useful to recommmend. In general I believe this page is mostly helpful as a technical reference for people curious about how bricking works instead of as a user guide for avoiding it. :) The user advice would mostly be "avoid installing stuff from repositories and developers you don't trust", with maybe some explanation for how to determine which repositories and developers to trust. [[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 23:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
	::Maybe a "trusted sources" page should be created somewhere, including repos that are from trusted developers that have released a certain number of tweaks on the official repos, this creates a place where users can be sure that the repo that they're adding is secure. --[[User:Haifisch\|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch\|talk]]) 01:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)		::Maybe a "trusted sources" page should be created somewhere, including repos that are from trusted developers that have released a certain number of tweaks on the official repos, this creates a place where users can be sure that the repo that they're adding is secure. --[[User:Haifisch\|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch\|talk]]) 01:38, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::We could instead write something like a "human readable algorithm" for helping people determine trust/reliability on their own - the steps could be something like this:
		+	:::# When you google the name and/or nickname of the developer (or search for it on Reddit, Twitter, and so on), do you find a Twitter account and other information showing that they interact with other developers and jailbreak community members and generally have a good reputation online? That can be a good sign. It can also be a good sign if they seem to use their real name as well as a nickname, since that means they've tied their real-life reputation to their development work.
		+	:::# Is the tweak in a default repository? If it's not in a default repository, is it on the developer's own repository, as verified by their Twitter account or website or other information provided by the developer? If it's in the developer's own repository, have they released tweaks on a default repository?
		+	:::# Does the tweak make big claims about what it can do, such as hugely reducing your battery use, saving you tons of disk space, or something else that sounds very difficult to do on a technical level? You should research a tweak more thoroughly if it makes big or complex-sounding claims.
		+	:::# ...and so on.
		+	:::[[User:Britta\|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta\|talk]]) 01:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)