The iPhone Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Ph0enix

2014-02-22T16:18:58Z

Ph0enix: /* Adding topics to users. */

== Adding topics to users. ==

Please stop adding without a discussion. You are adding it to people that are not researchers, including myself. This needs discussing. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:55, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
:adding a topic to the community portal now. and as far as i know everyone but apparently you have been security researchers.
::That is not true. I think we should list whoever gets added or delete the category but please wait until the topic is over in community portal before adding anyone else. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:14, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
:::Really how is that not true? who on there hasn't done security work for the iphone platform? I will not add any more and the topic is in the community portal.

Category:Security Researcher

2014-02-22T16:01:46Z

Ph0enix:

Community members that don't quite fit in with the Category Hackers '''BUT''' unlike most developers are focused on finding new exploits.

Category:Security Researcher

2014-02-22T16:01:19Z

Ph0enix:

Community members that don't quite fit in with the [[Category:Hackers|Hackers]] '''BUT''' unlike most developers are focused on finding new exploits.

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-22T15:57:33Z

Ph0enix:

{{Talk Archive}}
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
==iPhone-Elite==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

==Boot-args cleanup==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

==The iPhone Wiki re-design==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
What about just removing the text-shadow element for now? I think pages would be easier to read without it. Here's an example: [[:File:Noshadow.png]]. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah removing the shadow will make everything seem more flat but like [[User:http|http]] I'm still using the classic [http://theiphonewiki.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook MonoBook skin] --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
I would like to be added to the list of hackers for my work with the Private Dev Team and the [[Chronic Dev (team)|Chronic Dev Team]] in addition to my release of the Phoenix Semi-Untethered. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
::No. [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]], a team member found the vulnerability. I am the one who exploited it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])
:::I can back up this "claim". I was a part of it. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Whatever happened to this? --[[User:Phyrrus9|phyrrus9]]
:::::So this went cold and i am going to again request that this change be made. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I'm gonna say no. I don't see any notable accomplishments to merit this. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 21:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::'''No'''. The first step would be to get to the category [[:Category:Hackers|hackers]]. You can get there by finding a vulnerability that is used with an exploit in a jailbreak - or by writing a new exploit. Remember that it's not allowed to add yourself to that category. Instead of finding a vulnerability you could also be member of either The [[iPhone Dev Team]] or [[Chronic Dev]] or [[evad3rs]]. After being in that category, the next step would be that you're famous enough from all those hackers there to get to the main page. The people chosen are discussed here. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

==Orphaned articles==
This is an interesting search: [[Special:LonelyPages]] - "The following pages are not linked from or transcluded into other pages in The iPhone Wiki." I'm not sure where all of those articles should be linked, but figuring that out could be a useful project for somebody. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 05:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

==Easy tasks for new editors==
* Finish converting the remaining error codes listed here [[MobileDevice_Library#Known_Error_Codes]] into the proper mach_return_t codes they should be displayed as. (convert the negative number listed into hex, strip any leading "FF" so it should be in the format "0xe80000" followed by two numbers) --[[User:Dirkg|Dirkg]] ([[User talk:Dirkg|talk]]) 22:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== A1XXX model numbers vs. "GSM"/"CDMA"/"Global"/"Cellular"/etc. ==
I know that this topic was [[The iPhone Wiki:Community portal/2013#iPhone 5|already discussed earlier this year]], but it didn't seem to come to a consensus, and the introduction of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] brought a lot of model numbers. Some of them may "overlap" (think models A1429 and A1442 for the [[iPhone 5]]), but there's simply too many to give names to. There are at least two that can connect to CDMA networks, and all of them can connect to GSM. In addition, with the sheer amount of models, it doesn't seem likely for one model to be treated as a "global" model. Therefore, I changed the iPhone 5c to use model numbers. I would like to do the same to some of the devices that are already present on the wiki though— the same ones from when I first brought up this idea. The GSM/CDMA names work very well for the [[iPad 2]] and [[iPhone 4]]. Things are slightly murkier for the [[iPad 3|iPad (3rd gen.)]], [[iPad 4|iPad (4th gen.)]], [[iPad mini 1G]], and [[iPhone 5]] though; all of those devices' cellular models can connect to GSM networks, so it seems like nonsense to call some of them the "GSM model." The A1XXX model numbers are also how Apple tells the difference between the different models of these devices. Have any opinions changed? Or perhaps someone new might have something to say about this? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 06:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I actually like the idea as it does get complicated now with the new devices coming like said and we would have to do this for all devices. Although, if we did this, we would have to move all the key pages that have keys on to support this. That would not be a big problem as we could limit the moves to say 20 per day. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I suggest we wait a bit until we see what models of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] will exist. But in general, I like the idea of using only the A1nnn numbers. The only issue I see right now is that Apple differentiates between A1532 GSM and A1532 CDMA. If there are real hardware differences between these two, then we're screwed again. That's why I suggest to wait until we know these exact model types. On the disambiguation page I added the GSM/CDMA model differentiation already (as Apple does). If they turn out to be the same, we can remove it again, but I wonder why Apple lists two models (with different bands supported) there now. Someone also added the "CDMA" mark to one of the others, but that's not how Apple marks them, so I suggest to remove that mark there again. If everything can be differentiated by these A-model-numbers, then yes, we should change the old pages too. Including all key pages. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do know there are 2 CDMA and 3-4 GSM for the [[iPhone 5c]] alone. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Ahem… ''All'' of the iPhone 5c models can do GSM communications. Hence one of the reasons why I want to ditch the "GSM"/"Global"/etc. labels in favor of A1XXX model numbers. ;P --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::One thing is, what about iPod touch 5 as that has two model numbers that are the same device, same with iPhone5,2. How would we get around that? I suppose we could like both separated with a forward slash. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, we could just use something like "[[n42ap|iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)]]." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::Yeah I thought that but what about the iPhone 4 GSM and GSM Rev A? They both seem to be A1432. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::This is why I'm against using the A1XXX model numbers instead of the current GSM/Global thing. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::::I had no plans to change the way we refer to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 (Apple does use GSM/CDMA, and for those devices it works fine). If a new iPhone 5S revision comes along, Apple will probably refer to it as a "Rev A" thing, and so will we. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:Referencing Adam's reply above, if we had took that to the key pages, it'd be <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432)]]</code> which would mess ''everything'' up. What could we do? Use <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432 Rev A)]]</code>? No. That doesn't look good. The current way of referring to everything by their supported network type (GSM/CDMA/Global) helps in going to a different page.
:Let's say I'm on [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 GSM)]] and I want to go the CDMA device. What do I do? Go to the URL and replace <code>GSM</code> with <code>CDMA</code>. With the model numbers, I'd have to navigate to [[Firmware]], then find the link, or find out what the model number of the CDMA variant is and replace the model number in the URL with that. 
:Ok, who navigates by the URL and search bar? ''I do''. And I'm sure there's '''many''' people out there that prefer to navigate with the search bar if they know the page name. If we go by model number, the AJAX search results just list pages with a model number in parenthesis. '''How does that help'''? I'd either have to ''know'' the model number of the device I want, or visit ''each one'' until I find the page I need.
:Sorry for the rant, but I am '''strongly''' against this. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do suppose we could just trash the buildtrain all together to shorten it down too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Dropping the Build Train would only ''increase'' the workload. Besides, what's the harm with it? We've been using the same page title structure since forever, and it's worked. "''If it ain't broke, don't fix it''". The current system works, so ''why'', other than the fact that Apple refers to them differently, should we change this? In addition, we don't refer to everything the way Apple does. The [[iPad mini 1G]] is referred to as the "iPad mini". The [[iPad 3]] is refered to as "The New iPad". The [[iPad 4]] is refered to as "iPad with Retina Display"[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/]. Are the key pages titled <code>BrightonMaps 10B329 (The New iPad, Wi-Fi+3G for AT&T and Verizon)</code>? No. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::But the reason we want to not use the variants is because the new devices that are coming out are breaking he structure and also CDMA versions can use GSM in the 5c plus we have like 4 for GSM alone. I only meant drop buildtrain to shorten the urls down. For the iPhone 4 GSM Rev A we would have to list it as <code>iPhone 4 A1432 Rev</code> unless another idea is thought of. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::No. Anything involving moving key pages to change their title I am ''completely'' against. As for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c, we ultimately have to wait. There may be different types, but if they all work with the same firmware, then what do we do then? Use <code>A1456/A1504</code>? I don't want to do that. It can get confusing in the future if that list were to be huge. With ''5'' different models for the iPhone 5c ''alone'', it's just not practical. For the fact that all support GSM, but not all support CDMA, we just do what we've ''been'' doing: "GSM" and "Global". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::There's nothing wrong with changing the titles of pages that don't even exist though. If *all* of the models use the same firmware, just go with "iPhone 5s." If they happen to be partitioned into two different firmwares again, that will certainly complicate things, but it wouldn't be worse than nonsense like "GSM," "GSM [<nowiki />Global]," "CDMA," "CDMA [<nowiki />Global]," or "GSM [<nowiki />Global Plus TD-LTE]." If it's just one oddball, we could just have "iPhone 5s" and "iPhone 5s A1XXX" (whatever the odd one is), and include a link on the former page to say "keys for model A1XXX are on this page." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::I probably didn't phrase that well… I wasn't thinking of how Apple markets the product, but rather more along the lines of how they refer to it in, say, the tech specs page or support documents— the pages that shows the messier side to their simple sugar coating. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::You keep misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I'm proposing. I never said anything about dropping, say, "iPhone 5" so firmware page titles would look like [[Sundance 10A405 (A1428)]]. I want to change the GSM/Global part to the A1XXX number, so it would probably show like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428)]]. (If a hardware revision were made, it would probably look like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428 Rev A)]].) From time to time, I edit URLs to browse the wiki too. But the GSM/Global identifiers don't work that well; again, '''all iPhone 5 models can connect to GSM'''. That's not really helpful. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::I suggest we drop the A and use Rev. As for the idea of changing to A1XXX, I see no issues and am for the idea. I admit it can cause chaos when we move the pages but we could limit the moving per day of course. Overall, I think it will be worth it. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 10:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::No. Don't drop the <code>A</code> from <code>Rev A</code>. Why would you even think to? You want to call them what Apple calls them, and the [[n90bap|revised iPhone 4 GSM]] is referred to with <code>Rev A</code>. In addition, there have been <code>Rev ''B''</code> things before, such as the [[S5L8947]] (A5 Rev B) used in the [[j33iap|revised Apple TV 3G]]. In addition, think of all the redirects we would need to keep for sites that link to key pages directly. I have even seen sites that still link with the URLs as <code>/wiki/index.php?title={Title}</code> instead of the year old change to <code>/wiki/{Title}</code>. The wiki handles that internally for us, but the redirects made in the moves would have to be kept. Currently, only the [[iPhone 5]] and [[iPad 4]] are the only devices referred to by their model numbers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That's why I don't want to change it. It's worked for us, and we have no idea how the new firmwares will be handled. I am betting that there will only be two firmware types - one for the GSM, and one for the Global (GSM+CDMA) model. The only reason they are split, IIRC, is because AT&T uses different LTE bands than rest of the GSM world.
:::Ultimately, the GSM/CDMA/Global monikors haven't caused any ''naming conflicts''. Ok, you don't want to use the ''marketing'' title. What about the way they are referred to on [[Apple Developer Center|ADC]], because that seems to be what you want. I may be misreading what you're saying again, but if we're going to do that, let's use their ''full'' title. Something <code>(iPad [4th generation Model A1458])</code> (iPad 4 Wi-Fi) and <code>(iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for Verizon])</code> (iPad 3 Global). Does the first one tell you if the device is Wi-Fi or a Wi-Fi+3G model? Does the second one tell you ''at all'' that it is an [[iPad 3]], or that it supports GSM? No.
:::Apple has a history of being inconsistent. For example, the iPad 3 Wi-Fi is referred to on ADC (and iTunes) as "iPad Wi-Fi (3rd generation)" while the iPad 3 GSM is referred to as "iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for AT&T]". What happened to the "3rd generation"? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::We could always list as <code>iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)</code> etc instead if that would be better. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::Why is there a need to explicitly keep "Wi-Fi" in a key page's title? All you need is a way to distinguish what model it is from its other variants— the A1XXX model number does just that. It's not like we referred to the AppleTV3,2 as "Apple TV 3G (New Single-Core A5)" or something. And obviously, we can use common sense to address the 3rd generation iPad issue you brought up… Now you're just nitpicking. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 05:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I think we should wait until we see the firmware for iPhone 5c/5s and then decide. TBH, as [[User:5urd|5urd]] said, it is ok as it is but of course if once the new firmware is out it is more confusing, then we can think again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 14:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Come to think of it, we can use a mix of both; we can keep the "Global" moniker, but drop the "GSM" moniker in favor of the A1XXX model number. (The "GSM" moniker is the one that's been bothering me.) I think this works well for the iPad 3 (which is actually split into "CDMA" and "Global—" it probably doesn't need to be done for this), iPad 4, iPad mini 1G, and iPhone 5, but this leaves the question of what to do for the iPhone 5C/5S. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::That would look worse! If we are going to do it, we have to do it for '''''all'''''. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::What is the status on this now? --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::This discussion has stagnated, but I'm firing it up again— I want to fix this before the end of the year, so this can probably be seen as an ultimatum. Now that Apple has pushed a 7.1 beta to developers, we now know how Apple's splitting the new iPhones up— and it's by A1XXX model numbers still. :\ That's probably the path the wiki will go down, but I do have another idea. The other idea I have in mind is using the A1XXX model number for the cellular devices launched last year. But for this year's iPhones, the FCC ID is actually different between the two, so we could actually use that. Before this gets nitpicked on, the last letter can get changed to an "X" to signify that it's a wildcard of sorts. It's not a pretty solution so I do expect it to get shot down (hence why I'm going with the A1XXX model numbers unless everyone says otherwise), but I'm still throwing it out there in case everyone actually likes that. Everyone is welcome to suggest alternatives, but I '''will''' eliminate that GSM label before the year ends. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::That is worse, nobody knows the FCC ID off the top of their head. I would suggest "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" if anything. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Using "iPhone5,1" or "iPhone6,2" is even ''less'' friendly… The FCC ID can be looked up in Settings or the back of a device. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Well that is not the point. I say either use the firmware name or leave it alone. See what others thing though. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I currently plan on using the A1XXX model numbers— the FCC ID proposal was just thrown out there in the off chance that someone might like it. I'm not really a fan of it myself, but the FCC ID is probably the simplest way to figure out if it's an iPhone6,1 or iPhone6,2 since both have multiple A1XXX model numbers. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::I agree to get rid of the "GSM" name, as almost all iPhones support GSM. The Axxxx numbers would be nice, but as some phones have several numbers, like A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530 (what is actually different between them?) we can't use it. For the FCC-ID, we can't use that either, because for example the iPhone 5 with FCC-ID BCG-E2599A stands for the GSM/A1428 and also for the GSM+CDMA/A1429 version. So I suggest to either use the identifier (like iPhone2,1) or better the internal name (like n88ap). That would have the advantage to separate them further, because the iPhone 4 A1332 has two internal versions: iPhone3,1/n90ap and the iPhone3,2/n90bap. The bigger question is where you want to use this. That determines mainly the name. On all the key pages? Then it must be a name that is different between models that use different firmwares. And regarding key pages, maybe we should delete all the key pages from this wiki and move them into some database instead and provide a nice user interface and API around it and integrate that into the wiki somehow. That way we can change all pages with one simple edit. For the name, I prefer the internal name. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::We would have to edit key pages too. They should not be removed however. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I wasn't trying to say that we had to decide on one way to differentiate ''everything''; "GSM" does work fine for, say, the iPhone 4. The proposal I brought up today was using the FCC ID only for this year's (2013's) iPhones— last year's cellular devices would get the A1XXX model numbers (i.e. two different solutions for two different years). But as of right now, I like how using A1XXX model numbers sounds for all of the affected devices, mostly because that's the path Apple's going in their developer portal. Something like "iPhone 5s (Model A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530)" is admittedly a mouthful for this year's iPhones though. At the moment, I'm inquiring about how to label it on [[Firmware]] and such pages, but I'm sure the outcome can be adapted for key page titles as well. As for differences between the models, it seems to be the supported LTE bands. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I still think that unless it is "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" it will be complicated but on the other hand, I kind of like the idea that [[User:Http|http]] had, using the internal identifiers like this "iPhone 5 (n42ap)". The only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of a flood moving the key pages, although this can be done like 15 per day each or something. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::::I'm pretty sure the only key page that exists for an A5 (or newer) device is [[Telluride 9A406 (iPhone 4S)]]. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::::That was an example. I know there are no more A5 pages, only the one you said and two beta for iPhone 4S. I just meant that it would show the design. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals ==
Since this discussion has become extremely lengthy, here are the proposals (to my understanding) for changing the labels, each of which can be subject to changes (i.e. dropping the word "Model" from Proposal A). In an effort to conserve space (ironically, this still adds a significant amount of length), I only included a few models, which should give an idea of the proposal. Basically anything with an A5 or newer is involved. Feel free to edit this list if I missed or totally misinterpreted something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:25, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
# Proposal A (A1XXX numbers)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1456/A1532)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)]]
# Proposal B (A1XXX + FCC ID)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2644A)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2694X)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c BCG‑E2694X)]]
# Proposal C (-AP Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (p101ap)
#* iPad 4 (p102ap)
#* iPad 4 (p103ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n41ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n42ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n48ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n49ap)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 p101ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n42ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n49ap)]]
# Proposal D (iPhoneX,Y Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,4)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,5)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,6)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,2)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,3)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,4)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad3,4)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,2)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,4)]]

:I like this [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (3,4)]] or [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (iPad3,4)]]. I see there are 4 ways to approach this;
1. Change every single device. 
2. Change just devices with different variants, iPad 2+, iPad mini+, iPhone 4, iPhone 5+. 
3. Change A5+ only (which I hate the idea of). 
4. Change nothing at all. 
--[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::My intention for this was to be a ''neutral'' (i.e. opinion-free) spot where all of the proposals were being mentioned, so people could easily see the proposed changes without any bias… v.v --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::TBH, I think it is better as it is, but I just stated my opinion that only A5+ would make in inconsistent. Though you could argue it is already, that is down to Apple and furthermore, just A5+ would still not eliminate iPhone 4 (GSM, GSM Rev A or CDMA). --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:07, November 22, 2013‎ (UTC)}}
:Do it like #4, and do them all. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 18:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::It will be a pain, but I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea as it would make it much much better in the end. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say A and B are impossible due to various numbers in the same model. I like C best. For variant C you could also leave away the "ap" at the end, because every model has that, so it would be even shorter. For D, that's simply longer names and these names are not used at many places, but I could live with that version as well. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Taking into account everyone's thoughts on this, I think we'll probably go with option C. The wiki already uses the "-ap" identifiers for the model pages, and an identifier like "iPad3,4" may confuse someone into thinking it's a model of the [[iPad 3]]. (I would still like to use the A1XXX numbers since Apple does that, but nobody else seems to agree now…) I'll give this a few more days for any last words before acting on it. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::It '''will''' get changed before the year ends. I don't know why your opinion keeps changing, but I have already explained the reason for changing it. You even agreed that it needs to be changed. I'm still open to suggestions on what to change it to though. Keep in mind that the change will affect not only key pages, but also how the devices will be referred to throughout the wiki. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I know it will. I said it is fine to change. I like bot #3 and #4. Only point I must make is that I feel we should change all devices with multiple variants, including iPad Air and iPhone 4. This way, it is consistent and also removes GSM etc altogether. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Adam, if you're going to change some of them then change all of them. This includes iPods. Whatever the outcome, be consistent. As for the outcome itself, I really think we should just use device identifiers (iPhone2,1). That's what we're actually differentiating by, so it only makes sense to refer to devices by them. I don't think there would be any confusion, especially considering we'll keep the name of the device next to it regardless. Barring that, the next best option is ***ap. The other options don't make any sense considering modern devices. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 10:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea, though I do not mind if we do every device or just ones with multiple variants, as long as that included pre A5 (iPhone 4) too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals (cont.) ==
So this entire discussion came up because we need to remove "GSM" from models, because there are many models nowadays where the non-GSM model or Global or whatever model, all support GSM. One suggestion was the FCC number, but I think we already agreed that this is out of discussion (only used within USA and nobody refers to this number). So we have to use either
*The Axxxx number (like A1332 for the iPhone 4). This is how Apple identifies their devices.
*The ap number (like n94ap or just short N94). This is the internal name and used in internal references, like in the [[iBEC]] or [[iBSS]] filenames within an [[IPSW]]. (This is also what iH8sn0w has on his stickers on the devices.)
*The 1,2 number (like iPad1,1 for the iPad 1G). This identifier is used in the [[IPSW]] filenames.
There are several issues with using one over the other:
*Some devices (iPad 1G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5c, iPhone 5s to be exact) have multiple Axxxx numbers for the same ap number/1,2 number. For example the iPad 1G: A1219 (WiFi model) and A1337 (GSM model) both have k48ap / iPad1,1. So only the Axxxx number could be used to replace the "GSM" identifier.
*The iPhone 4 has for A1332 two ap numbers/1,2 numbers: A1332 stands for both n90ap/iPhone3,1 and also for n90bap/iPhone3,2.
*The iPod touch 5G has the same 1,2 number for two ap numbers/Axxxx numbers: iPod5,1 stands for both A1421/n78ap and also for A1509/n78aap.
I understand the point from [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] somehow that we should make it consistent and change it everywhere in the same manner. The question is where to change what. So where do we use these terms?
*The biggest affected change would be the key pages, so any change there should be carefully considered. Currently we use something like: "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". So the discussion here is just about the change in the brackets. For the devices where no different hardware versions exist, I think the current naming is ok. So let's just continue using that. Only where different (sub-)devices exist for the same main model (like for the iPhone 5c) and they require a different firmware file, then we need to specify it. So we need to add something after the "iPhone 5c" to specify the difference. For older devices, we should leave it as it is, because it works very well there. For example the iPad 1G WiFi and GSM require different firmware, but can be differentiated that way. And we can't use the ap number, because both versions use k48ap, respectively iPad1,1. So I think we should leave the old devices as they are. For newer devices, like the iPhone 5c, there are only two variations for the firmware, but six different Axxxx numbers and we don't want to list all of them in the firmware name. We also cannot use "GSM" for the reason mentioned at the introduction. I would prefer to use the ap number there, but that yields to problems. In case of the iPod touch 5G, we have two models (A1421/n78ap and also A1509/n78aap). Fortunately both use the same firmware, so we don't have to specify anything. But if Apple would release an additional model that would require a different firmware, we would have to specify the name even here and we can't add a name like "n78ap+n78aap". The name iPod5,1 there seems to be the obvious choice, as it is contained in the ipsw name already, so it is unlikely that Apple will change that. The only question is the format then. My choice would be to keep it short, something like "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c [5,4])" instead of the current "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". We shouldn't repeat the word "iPhone" there. And we shouldn't remove the "5c" of the original name.
*We also have some hardware lists, for example on the key pages titles where we list under iPad 2: Wi-Fi, GSM, CDMA, Wi-Fi (A). They link directly to our ap-pages, for example the "Wi-Fi (A)" name links to "k93aap". I think we don't need to change this. For the iPhone 5c, we have GSM and Global and they also link to the ap-pages. The link remains there, so we would only change the name. I suggest to use the same short name as in the key page extension, so something like my suggested "[5,4]" for example (instead of "GSM").
*On the [[Models]] page, we have the column "Variant", which also lists "GSM" and "Global" etc. That would also need to change. I suggest to leave it for older devices where "GSM" is a valid differentiation. For newer devices we might list the bands it supports or something else.
*On hardware pages, like [[iPhone]], we also have names and links in the title bar. For devices that have different sub-devices (like the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5/5c/5s) I suggest to rename the title names to the ap-names, as they link to the respective page. I would not change the title "iPhone 3G" to "N82ap" although it links there. So this change would only apply to sub-titles.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 00:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:Include iPhone 4 in the change and use same format everywhere on the wiki. I agree that we do not need to change devices with only one variant such as iPhone 3GS. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree on that. 3GS, 3G and the 1st iPhone are anyway devices where I do not see too many wiki-related changes in the future.--[[User:M2m|M2m]] ([[User talk:M2m|talk]]) 09:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:I don't like how the abbreviated form of "iPad3,4" looks— I understand wanting to keep "iPad 4" in the name, but I can't come up with alternatives besides going with only the identifier. (Another issue is that MediaWiki's markup parser doesn't seem to like square brackets in links— I tried using <code><nowiki><nowiki /></nowiki></code>.) Having thought it over for a few days, I'm more receptive to changing all multi-variant devices (i.e. including the iPhone 4), but my concern about the Recent changes getting flooded with page moves still exists. The page moves should be done on "quiet" days, when the wiki doesn't see much activity. That being said, this is my understanding of the proposed changes. Does everyone agree with the following?
:* On pages like [[iPhone]], the variant labels will be replaced with the identifier, e.g. iPhone3,1/iPhone3,2/iPhone3,3. (An exception will probably need to be made for the iPad1,1. The "Internal Name" row should also be modified because there will be duplicated information.)
:* On [[Models]], the variant labels will be replaced with something else for the iPhone 5 and newer. (I feel like there are too many LTE bands to list in such a spot, but I don't have any better ideas.)
:* On pages such as [[Firmware]] and [[Jailbreak]], labels will be changed to things like "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" and "iPad 4 (iPad3,4)." Single-variant devices like the Apple TV 2G will remain as-is.
:* The key pages will be moved to a different title, to resemble the following.
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (AppleTV3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (Apple TV AppleTV3,1)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad2,4)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 2 iPad2,4)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)]]
:** [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPod touch 5G)]]
:Do let me know if I missed something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with your idea [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]], but make every page use iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) etc. Of course if pages use iPhone 4 (GSM) now, change that to iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) or iPhone 4 (3,1). I would suggest moving 10 pages per day for the iPhone 4 to avoid flooding. I do not want some pages to include the AP identifier and some others iPhone3,1 for example. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Several comments:
*The square brackets were just an idea, nothing agreed on that yet. And yes, let's forget this idea if it has problems with MediaWiki.
*The beginning of the name should remain, otherwise we're getting inconsistent with other pages. I agree with [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] on this. To keep it short, my favorite would be something like "iPhone 4 (3,1)" then. But to make it more clear, "iPhone4 (iPhone3,1)" is also ok to me. If you wanted to leave the first part away and just use "iPhone3,1", then we would have to rename ALL pages (that's also an option).
*Regarding flooding, I prefer that we do all changes at once, at an agreed date/time, done by [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. Maybe in two steps: first step to change the few hardware pages plus one page of each device of the key pages. In the second step the rest. This would ensure that any misunderstandings get catched in the first step, before all pages are renamed. I don't like to have 20 edits per day that I have to go through. Better all at once, but only after agreement of all.
*Yes, we can do iPhone 4 too, if that't the only missing one. It was a misunderstanding on my part for iPad GSM/WiFi, as this doesn't have different firmwares (only on hardware pages needed).
*Regarding the proposed listing of the bands on the [[Models]] page, Variant column, we could only list the bands that are different to make it short.

Can we list here what pages would be affected by the changes? Feel free to edit this list here within my comment. Here's what I have in mind:
*[[Models]]
*[[Apple TV]], [[iPad]], [[iPad mini]], [[iPhone]], [[iPod touch]]
*[[Firmware Keys]]
*[[Firmware]], [[Beta Firmware]]
*[[Jailbreak]]
*[[Application Processor]]
*[[Main Page]] - for Application Processors and Baseband Devices.
*[[:Category:Baseband]] - some pages state models and also the baseband devices, such as [[MDM6600]].
*[[Template:Keys]]
*[[P0sixspwn]]
*[[:Timeline]]
*[[SHSH]]
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (like [[Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 GSM)]]), total 69 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (A) (like [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4372q (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A)]]), total 21 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 CDMA (like [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 CDMA)]]), total 50 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 5 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5c and 5s (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 Wi-Fi)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 GSM (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 GSM)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 CDMA (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 CDMA)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 CDMA (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Cellular (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Cellular (nonexistent)
The key pages would get moved without redirect and all references updated. The references should also be in this list above. Add it to the list if I forgot anything.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 15:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes that is fine. I said the 10 a day to avoid a big flood, but I do not mind either way. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:13, January 1, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::Looks good. I amended the list to include the iPads as well. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::So most of you seem to agree on the the generic change now. But what is missing is the exact naming. We have three variations still in discussion:
:::::#"iPhone 4 (3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 3,1"
:::::#"iPhone 4 iPhone3,1"
:::::I just noticed that we cannot use the round brackets, because this entire part is already enclosed in round brackets - otherwise we would have nested brackets and in grammar I think you have to use square brackets which are not allowed in MediaWiki. So this leaves us with #3 and #4. #3 looks silly without the brackets, so we probably have to use #4 as [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] suggested. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I agree with #4, looks better as I feel that #3 needs some sort of brackets if we used that. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]])
::::::Wow, time really flies when you sleep all day. I've missed a ''lot''. Ok. I'm happy we decided to use the firmware moniker instead of something else. Personally, I don't like #1 because it just looks weird IMO. In addition, #1 and #2 would require the use of brackets (<code>(iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>) which would require the use of <code><nowiki/></code> all over the place, and that will get not only ugly, but annoying. I agree #3 looks weird. However, #4 just looks redundent. I personally would like just <code>iPhone3,1</code>, but if I would have to put my vote on one of those last two, it would be #4. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 08:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::One last comment: We could also just use "iPhone3,1" (leaving the leading "iPhone 4" completely away). That would have two advantages and two disadvantages:
:::::::*+ shorter
:::::::*+ future-proof; if we ever decide to rename the rest as well, this is the way to name it
:::::::*- somehow inconsistent with non-ambiguous other key pages (although ambiguous and non-ambiguous pages are different now anyway)
:::::::*- less easy to understand from the name what device it is (but the iOS version is also not directly visible)
:::::::--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::To me, that makes it worse. Why can we not use the rounded "()" brackets? I mean, it will only be duplicated in the key page urls, in which if it must be, just do "iPhone 4 iPhone3,1". Does not seem too bad to me. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::We ''don't want to'' use parenthesis because then we get double parenthesis (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 (3,1))</code>). We would have to use braces (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>), but MediaWiki chokes when there's braces in a link unless you use <code><nowiki/></code>; and that would mean ''everywhere'' there's a firmware link. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::That ''is'' what I suggested in my reply... As for your first disadvantage, it only applies to the iPads where Apple has gotten confusing. Actually, now that I think of that, option #4 above does look nice. However, I still don't like the redundency of having <code>iPhone</code> in there twice. And as I said before, options #1 and #3 just look weird. So we're stuck at either redundency or looking weird. But then again, it wouldn't be redundent for the non-existent iPad key page links where Apple decided to be annoying with their firmware monikers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Could we not just use the parenthesis but just not in the key page URL's? I mean, "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" but in the urls for key pages, <code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone_4_iPhone3,1)</code>? That seems fine here. The underscores are currently there anyway. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::This seems fine to me… Well, aside from the underscores. Other than that, we're actually already doing the same thing until the changes are implemented. (Key pages say "(iPhone 4 GSM)" while other parts of the wiki say "iPhone 4 (GSM model).") --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::I think that "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" does look the nicest, and I don't really feel like it's redundant. I also like the idea of just saying 'iPhone3,1'. If either of those options doesn't work, it might be good to do something like "iPhone 4; iPhone3,1" or "iPhone 4 | iPhone3,1".--[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 16:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The underscores were stated due to the key page URL's use that. I did not mean use that throughout. Was just to give an example, [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:16, January 2, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::::::::So we have to decide between
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)" (name on link could be "Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [iPhone3,1])" or whatever fits best in the context)
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone3,1)"
::::::::::I would prefer #2 (for advantages/disadvantages see list above), but could also live with the other one. Votes? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would prefer #1 because it would be more consistent. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:14, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Count my vote for #2. I could go either way, but option #2 looks nicer. But just to double-check (yet again), we ''are'' using "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" in places like [[Firmware]]'s headings, right? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::Headings/titles/links: we didn't decide on that, but I think we can put whatever fits best in the context of a page. So that's a 'yes'. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

== Key page template ==
I actually like the idea of a database to an extent. I bet I could put together an extension that creates a [[Special:SpecialPages|special page]] that allows read access to everyone (and r/w access to users). Any edits to the key "pages" wouldn't cause a [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] log. If we ever needed to update the layout, we would just need to update the extension. We could even have an API.
The only limitation is that updates to the extension would require either [[User:geohot|George]] or [[User:Dialexio|Alex]] needing to upload the fix. If we were to set up an external site, then all links to it would need to be wrapped with <code>...</code>.
Maybe a simple extension that takes links and redirects you to the external site? That could work. Like, we would have a link to, say, <code>[[<nowiki/>Special:Keys/iPad1,1/9A405]]</code> which would give an HTTP <code>301 Moved Permanently</code> header to, say, <code><nowiki>http://ioskeys.com/iPad1,1/9A405</nowiki></code>. Granted, someone would have to pay for the domain, but it would solve this problem. I may be able to pay for the domain if I make enough money by the time I finish writing everything. Any opposition? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:I do not like the idea. I like the idea of the database to a degree, but I think that the pages should remain on this wiki. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't see this solving any problem— the backlash against changing the key page template was because of (unnecessary?) changes to the arguments, and the frequency of how often such changes were being proposed/applied. How would a database prevent it? For instance, let's say the database columns are all decided on. Suddenly, it's decided that SHA-1 hashes should be added as well, or perhaps "VFDecryptKey" will be renamed to "FSKey." People submitting keys would still be bothered with having to adjust for those changes. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::That with the database is something I'll implement anyway (if not someone else is faster, as I'm quite busy). I just threw that in here as it might solve the problem of the frequent template updates (which is/was wrong anyway). From there it would be easy to create the VFDecrypt page with an overview link or lists of missing keys and that stuff, so the wiki would not need any direct links. But it would mean that we either completely remove all keys here from the wiki and embrace that solution or have them still duplicate (which then doesn't solve the problem). Dialexio: renaming columns can be handled without interface changes, but that's another topic. So let's forget about this database thing for now and we can discuss again when I have something. We certainly don't want to add extensions for that. So back to the discussion about the renaming: If I understood this correctly, you only want to rename A5+ devices and therefore no key pages would be affected. Is my understanding correct? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::As long as the pages stay on this wiki, I do not mind. Although, a database could be pointless as with only 50 more pages to edit for the new format, there is no planned new format/changes again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::About the renaming, that is correct; I'm only interested in changing the cellular labels on A5/+ devices. (Well, the iPad 2 can remain as-is.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well that would just make things more complicated/inconsistent. We should do all or none. About the template idea, there is also no need as it is not likely we will change the format again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Do we really need to CHANGE THE FORMAT 50 TIMES IN A ROW? The old one before everything was messed with worked fine enough. [[User:Winocm|Winocm]] ([[User talk:Winocm|talk]]) 18:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::It was actually one change, which was completed. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Login prompt revision suggestion==
I wrote a suggestion here: [[MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt]] (since I don't have permission to edit [[MediaWiki:Loginprompt]] directly) - I'd be interested in whether it sounds like a good idea to other people. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

==Homepage suggestions==
Under "Application Development", what about linking to [http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Main_Page iPhoneDevWiki]? It's also a community-edited technical resource, and it links to this wiki. It could be helpful to add a little more detail to "Get [[up to speed]] in the community.", like this: "Get [[up to speed]] in the community - learn about how jailbreaks work." Under "Definitions", it could be helpful to list all the firmware tags in one line or sub-list, similar to how Jailbreak is organized next to Tethered jailbreak and Untethered jailbreak, both to save space and help readers understand the list. --[[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:A link to the iPhoneDevWiki sounds good. I wonder if we should have an "External Links" or "Other Resources" section to include links to other sites (such as the [http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ iPhone Dev Team blog]) though. As for the "Up to Speed" page, I feel like the entire page could be reworked a bit— and perhaps even receive a new, clearer name ([[Introduction]]? [[Preface]]? Or something else?)— the current name makes it sound like it's for people that last paid attention to jailbreaking when the App Store didn't exist. And yeah, moving the IMG3 tags to a sub-list sounds like a really good idea. (Admittedly, I actually don't care for its inclusion in the first place, but that's just a personal preference.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
::There's already [[Useful Links]] with some links to other core community resources (which could be updated and rearranged) - I was just thinking that it'd be especially useful to link to iPhoneDevWiki prominently since it's likely for TheiPhoneWiki visitors to also be interested in relatively-organized technical information about development. Changing the name of "Up to Speed" sounds fine to me too - that page didn't get much attention since 2008 until I sort of commandeered it to serve as an "intro to jailbreaking" page. :) It could be renamed "getting started", as in "how to get started on learning about research into iOS devices, especially security research (such as jailbreaks)". [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Also I'd love to see a dedicated section for "Good tasks for new editors", where we could maintain a list of relatively easy/straightforward suggested edits that wouldn't require vast technical knowledge, like updating that links page. Where would that go? Add it as a sub-section of [[The iPhone Wiki:Current events]] and link that section from the homepage or something? Or make a new page? [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

==What is 0x5265c384 in the boot process?==
Does anybody know where <code>0x5265c384</code> points to in the boot process? I haven't been able to find anything on it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 20:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

==License for contributions==
This wiki has never had an official license for contributions. Now, IANAL, but IIRC, this means that you can't use ''anything'' posted here unless it qualifies as fair-use. What I propose is that we set a license and add a notice that states that any contributions after a set date are to be licensed under that license (that's kindof a mouthful). I think we should use the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-by-SA 3.0] as [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Wikipedia uses it]], but that's just me. Any ideas? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 19:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Well, the edit info already says all this:
Please note that all contributions to The iPhone Wiki may be edited, altered, or
removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly,
then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public
domain or similar free resource (see The [[:The iPhone Wiki:Copyrights|iPhone Wiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not'''
'''submit copyrighted work without permission!'''
For me, that's enough. I don't need a 50 page license. But if you want to formalize this more, go ahead. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Sounds good. It's good practice to have an official license, just in case any disputes happen someday, and to ensure that it's OK to copy text over to Wikipedia (for example). [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 21:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Banner Replacement?==
I kinda feel like the banner on the front page is getting a little stale, so I'm interested in seeing it replaced. I tossed a proposal [https://twitter.com/Draxelf/status/408295008794845184 on Twitter] a couple of days ago (which is admittedly plain, but Myriad Set…), but I haven't heard any opinions on replacing the banner. Are there any thoughts on this matter? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Or, [http://imgur.com/wJFqPl1 this]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Looks nice in Myriad! More professional. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 04:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

==Date Format==
I see that [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] started to unify the date formats in this wiki. While I like this to be consistent, actually we should've talked about what format to use before changing it. I like the d_mon_yyyy format though. I also saw that he removed the <code>&nbsp;</code> between the date parts on the [[iFaith]] page that I added once purposefully. The reason was that when making the browser window small (or on the iPhone) that the date wraps to two lines, which is almost always undesired. The question is if we should do that everywhere too? Additionally, as we now seem to have a "standard" here, we should document it, so that new users know what format to use. -- [[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 17:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:I just made it consistent. If you want the <code>&nbsp;</code> back, feel free to add it. I removed it as it did nothing (previewing on OS X). We should use the format I used throughout the wiki and not Dec 23, 2013 etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
::<code>&nbsp;</code> stands for "'''n'''on-'''b'''reaking '''sp'''ace". It is essentially a space, but with a property that prevents word wrap from occurring between the two words it's between. Look at [[Firmware Keys]] on a small enough screen (1024 across should do it). Your browser should preserve the space between the date "words". Now, go into the edit page and remove the <code>&nbsp;</code> from everything in one table. Your browser will now word wrap the date "words". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:What I actually want to do is use <code>{{[[Template:Start date|start date]]}}</code> instead of plain dates in areas where dates are used as a statistic; for example, [[Firmware]], [[Firmware Keys]], [[SHSH]], [[Timeline]], etc. Places where dates are used to record when something happened, for example on [[evasi0n7]], "On 28 December 2013...", should use the date flat out in the source. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Template documentation ==
Whenever using templates that are copied here from Wikipedia, I almost always forget the parameters of the template. I then have to open Wikipedia and search for the template. What I want to do it copy the template documentation from Wikipedia here. To work around the licensing issue, we can create our own template that you would include at the bottom of the copied documentation that says the documentation comes from Wikipedia (because Wikipedia uses [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CC-BY-SA 3.0]] which says our copied text must be under CC-BY-SA 3.0 ''and'' attribute Wikipedia and her editors. I can write the text for license template. Any ideas? Any opposition? If not, I'll begin in a few days. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:I don't see why not. That's what I've seen done on other wikis. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:56, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

== Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List ==

I think the "iPhone Hackers" List of the mainpage needs to be updated. Here are some people that need adding:

*[[Pimskeks]]
*[[User:iH8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]
*[[User:winocm|winocm]]
*SquiffyPwn
*[[i0n1c]]

Are there any others you can think of? — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
:I agree with the list except I do not think that SquiffyPwn has done anything huge, except help with [[p0sixspwn]] and i0n1c shouldn't be added. Just my opinions. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 20:53, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:: [[User:ph0enix|Me]], [[User:5urd|5urd]] and [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]] have definitely earned our keep refer to http://theprivatedevteam.blogspot.com/2012/04/ios-51-semi-untethered-jailbreak.html --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 02:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
:::I disagree, you are not that well know, like pimskeks etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:25, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
::::I agree with iAdam1n. You are not known enough. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 14:52, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::Are you kidding me?? we have worked with many "well known" hackers and are in constant communication with people like p0sixninja! this is a joke we dont have to be "well known" to be influential hackers who not to mention have been running support and hacking in the community for 4 almost 5 years! --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:08, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::Support does not count. I am sticking with my original decision. AFAIK, you released no jailbreaks or found any new exploits, not as well know as the main hackers. Feel free to share what you have found/made if you want and also you can see what others say. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:24, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::::are you kidding me!! http://theprivatedevteam.blogspot.com/2012/04/ios-51-semi-untethered-jailbreak.html that is the reason i have high quality followers like posixninja and nitotv just because you guys are too young in the community to know about our major help to the community doesnt mean we are it is a closed sourced exploit but very functional and based off of redsn0w that implements our exploit now if you wanna get your thumb out of your buts and pay attention it would be great --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 22:17, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::Why is this being brought up again? The answer was no before, and it's going to remain no for the reasons http stated before. I should add that who follows who on Twitter doesn't really mean anything— I have nitoTV, chronic, iH8sn0w, and winocm as followers, but that doesn't mean [https://twitter.com/Dialexio/status/376801384752222208 this] was a legitimate jailbreak by any means. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:05, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::: Jeez idk maybe because we RELEASED A WORKING TOOL AND KEEP BEING BLOWN OFF BY INFERIOR ASS HOLES WHO REFUSE TO ADMIT IT! when you create a tool then challenge it till then we should be put on the list for discovering and implementing a previously unknown userland exploit and building a tool to ease the process... --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 23:22, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::Your insults aren't helping your credibility. Just saying. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:35, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::: well if i wouldn't have to have been asking for so long then i wouldn't be so upset my credibility is there whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you. our tool is a working tool and we discovered and implemented a exploit that should be grounds for our names to be on the list,and the followers point is that we may not be well known but the people who follow us are legit people. quality over quantity. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 23:49, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::And now, your arguing with the administration. The answer is no. End of. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 09:13, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
:Coming back to this old discussion, the decision at that time was to not even include iH8sn0w there, so I don't see a reason to include much lesser known people. For the overview list, we already have the [[:Category:Hackers]]. The main page is just for the 5-10 currently most important people. Regarding names, there should be a wide consensus of the people listed. If you ask me today, I'd comment like this:
:*i0n1c is not working on public jailbreaks, so don't include
:*geohot has retired from the scene, he could get removed, but as founder of this wiki and best contributor to the scene of all time, better leave him there
:*winocm new shooting star, could get added
:*iH8sn0w could get added with all the tools created
:*all others I would not add or only added to category mentioned above
:Remember that the list should be really short, so adding anyone would most probably mean to remove someone less important. Also, number of followers on Twitter doesn't mean anything; all these people follow me too and I wouldn't claim to be that important. This shouldn't discourage anybody not on this main page to continue his/her work. If this is causing these feelings, I think we should remove the list there entirely. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:28, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
:: Thanks [[User:Http|http]] I feel like in that case their should be a new category made for the people who have worked very hard but by those standards do not fit in that category, something like security researchers for the people who are doing a lot of behind the scenes work and certainly deserve some recognition somewhere on here. Just a thought though. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 22:29, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
== Category Security Researchers==
Hi all! i've created the category Security Researchers in order to cut down on the pages categorized as hackers as it apparently needs to be more exclusive. i've been adding the less known or inactive hackers from the hacker page but have not removed them from the hackers page. I feel that it should be a vote on who gets removed from the hackers page so my first suggestion is [[User:Fallensn0w‎]] as he has been inactive for a very long time and didn't do a lot in the first place. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 15:57, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

User talk:Ph0enix

2014-02-22T15:56:18Z

Ph0enix:

User:Fallensn0w

2014-02-22T15:50:05Z

Ph0enix:

[[Category:Security Researcher]]
[[Image:Fallensn0w-192.png|right|The Fallen Sn0wflake :)]]

== Presentation ==
I'm a Windows programmer and a member of [[User:Ih8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]'s Dev Team.
 Got a very high interest of Computers thats how i started with programming and stuff like it.
 Then I got my first iPhone late 2007 and I decided to be more than a "iPhone User" because this device could do alot more than Apple wants it to and so I became a Developer, people may consider it as a "iDevice Hacker".

== Devices ==
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size: smaller; text-align: center; width: auto; table-layout: fixed; border-collapse: collapse;" border="1"
|-
! Device
! Color
! Memory (GBs)
! Comments
! Works
! Arrival
! Firmware
|-
| [[N90ap|iPhone 4]]
| Black
| 32
| Absolutely my favourite iDevice, I love it!
| {{yes}}
| 2010-08-05
| 4.1
|-
| [[M68ap|iPhone 2G]]
| Silver
| 8
| It was a Monster when I first got it.
| {{no}}
| Late 2007
| 3.0 ''(I think)''
|-
| [[N82ap|iPhone 3G]]
| Black
| 8
| I had a white one too, but I sold both. (one to my dad)
| {{yes}}
| Middle of 2008
| 2.2.1
|-
| [[N72ap|iPod touch 2G]]
| Chrome
| 8
| It's well used :)
| {{yes}}
| Christmas, 2009
| 3.1.2
|}

== Contact ==
* [http://theiphonewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Fallensn0w The iPhone Wiki]
* [http://www.youtube.com/iFallensn0w YouTube]
* [mailto:ifallensn0w@gmail.com Gmail] ''(Recommended)''
* [https://twitter.com/fallensn0w Twitter] ''(Recommended)''
* [https://github.com/Fallensn0w gitHub]
* [http://fallensn0w.tk Fallensn0w's blog] ''(i'm not updating it anylonger but posts are there)''

== Maker of programs ==
* [[giRecovery]] - a graphical interface for [[iRecovery]]. ''(NOTE: giRecovery was known as [[GiRecovery|Zeratul]] before.)''
* [https://github.com/fallensn0w/iDecrypter iDecrypter] - a graphical interface for [[VFDecrypt]].
* [[openiBlackbreeze]] - a open-sourced version of [[User:Ih8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]'s blackbreeze.
* [[IBooty#Resources|openiBooty]] - a open-sourced version of [[User:Ih8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]'s [[iBooty]].
* [[openiPwner]] - a open-sourced version of [[User:Ih8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]'s [[Payload Pwner]].
* [[iCENTER]] - a program that will upload Game Center.app via SSH.
* [[Nephron]] - a Windows version of [[Pneumonia]].
* [[iRecovery#Updates|vbiRecovery]] - iRecovery ported over to the .NET framework.
* [[OpenWinPwn]] - a program that will generate payloads for different iDevices. ''(ported from linux)''
* [[MobileDevice Library#Libraries Implementations|MobileDevice.vb]] - a Visual Basic .NET version of MobileDevice.h
* [[iAgent]] - a program that will gather the connected idevices serial number and ecid.
All my programs are open-sourced and available on [https://github.com/Fallensn0w GitHub].

[[Category:Hackers]]

User:DownBB

2014-02-22T15:43:27Z

Ph0enix:

[[Category:Security Researcher]]
==About==
DownBB is a tool that allows the user to downgrade the [[N82ap|iPhone 3G]] Baseband from 02.30.03 to 02.28.00 with the [[Baseband Bootloader]] 5.8.

==Will Not==
This tool will not work with BL 5.9 or the newly reported 6.0.2.

==Credits==
Exploit: [[Geohot]] and [[iPhone Dev Team]] 
Patch Implementation: [[Geohot]] 
Script: EvilPenguin|

==Me==
DownBB - by James.
(a.k.a. EvilPenguin|).

===How To===
To run DownBB, you must first put my *temp* repo in cydia sources: http://evilpenguin.apple2all.com.br
soon to be on bigbosses as well
Download "DownBB"
Open MobileTerminal
type "DownBB" -without the ""
- if you do not have MoileTerminal, you can download it or [[ssh]].

==BootLoader Check==
To check your bootloader version, install minicom and run at+xgendata (see [[Baseband Commands]] for more info)

==Download links==
* dunno if i want to put it up yet
* you will then have to ssh it all into the iphone
* and then depk -i the .deb file

User:IAdam1n

2014-02-22T15:39:35Z

Ph0enix:

{{lowercase}}
[[Category:Security Researcher]]
Moderator on [http://jailbreakqa.com JailbreakQA]. I like things to be perfect so I may make minor edits for the smallest of things. If you want to contact me, feel free to [[Special:Emailuser/iAdam1n|email]].

==iOS Devices==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Device
! Storage
! Firmware
! Build
! Jailbroken?
! Tool
|-
| [[n90ap|iPhone 4]] (iPhone3,1)
| rowspan="2" | 16GB
| 7.1b5
| 11D5145e
| {{no}}
| {{n/a}}
|-
| [[n42ap|iPhone 5]] (iPhone5,2)
| 7.0.6
| class="rborderplz" | 11B651
| rowspan="2" {{yes}}
| [[evasi0n7]]
|}

* I also have access to an [[n88ap|iPhone 3GS]] 8GB on 6.1.3 which is not jailbroken.

==Operating Systems==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! OS
! Device
! Version
|-
| OS X
| MacBook Pro 15" Early 2011
| 10.9.1
|-
| Debian
| VPS
| 7.4
|-
| iOS
| colspan="2" | See the iOS Devices table above.
|}

==Profiles==
* [https://github.com/iAdam1n GitHub]
* [http://www.jailbreakqa.com/users/14185/iadam1n JailbreakQA]
* [http://www.reddit.com/user/iAdam1n/ Reddit]
* [http://twitter.com/iAdam1n Twitter]
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Adaminsull Wikipedia]

Category talk:Security Researcher

2014-02-22T15:33:31Z

Ph0enix:

Is this category needed? It seems like the whole PrivateDevTeam does this just for the rep. --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 06:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
: I see your worries but as the private dev team doesn't exist any more that's not why its so that we can weed out the hacker category put the people who A: don't work on public jailbreaks (ex. I0nic) or do background work either freely or for the smaller teams working under larger teams.right now it is a smaller category but over the next week it definitely '''WILL NOT''' just be the private dev team those where just the first names that came to mind given i worked with them for a couple years --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 15:33, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I0n1c

2014-02-22T00:34:49Z

Ph0enix:

{{lowercase}}
'''i0n1c''', whose real name is Stefan Esser, is a German security researcher. He developed [[Antid0te]], an [[wikipedia:Address space layout randomization|ASLR]] for jailbroken [[iPhone]]s in fall 2010, but never released it, because [[iOS]] since 4.3 includes an implementation of ASLR. He developed an untethering exploit for iOS 4.3. He gave a version of the exploit that worked on iOS 4.3.1 to the [[iPhone Dev Team]] which updated [[redsn0w]] and [[PwnageTool]] to use it and released the new tools on 4 April 2011. [[sn0wbreeze]] was also updated to include his untether. As the vulnerability went unpatched in iOS 4.3.2 and 4.3.3, he updated his code later to support those firmwares. An iOS 4.3-compatible version was never released.

===Presentations===
*[http://conference.hitb.org/hitbsecconf2011kul/materials/D2T1%20-%20Stefan%20Esser%20-%20iPhone%20Exploitation%20-%20One%20ROPe%20to%20Bind%20Them%20All.pdf HITB 2011 Malaysia: iPhone Exploitation - One ROPe to bind them all?]
*[http://antid0te.com/CSW2012_StefanEsser_iOS5_An_Exploitation_Nightmare_FINAL.pdf CanSecWest 2012: iOS5, an Exploitation Nightmare (PDF)]
*[https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Esser/BH_US_11_Esser_Exploiting_The_iOS_Kernel_Slides.pdf BlackHat US 2011: Exploiting the iOS Kernel (PDF)]

===Links===
*[https://twitter.com/i0nic i0nic on Twitter]
*[http://www.suspekt.org Homepage]
*[https://github.com/stefanesser GitHub]
[[Category:Hackers]]
[[Category:Security Researcher]]

Category:Security Researcher

2014-02-21T23:32:15Z

Ph0enix:

Community members that don't quite fit in with the [[Category:Hackers]] '''BUT''' unlike most developers are focused on finding new exploits.

User:Phyrrus9

2014-02-21T23:25:46Z

Ph0enix:

[[Category:Security Researcher]]
[[Category:The Private Dev Team]]
Ethan Laur (phyrrus9), [[iPhone]] hacker and programmer.

Skills include:
*C/C++
*C#
*Bash/batch/BASIC
*PHP
*HTML5
*CSS3
*buffer overflows :P
*Obj-C
*some assembly language (i386)
*Pro bathroom cleaner & cashier :P
*Will program for money ;) email me? Thanks.

I can pretty much do any of the tasks you need that don't involve 8 months of my time

Achivements:
*State Finals Champion Cross Country 2012 [http://www.superiortiming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/UP-Finals-Div-1-Boys.htm source]
*Member of the HackStore team
*Member of the Private Dev Team [http://198.154.63.108/ website here]
*Member of the [http://www.openjailbreak.org OpenJailbreak] team.

Current projects include:
*This list needs to be updated.. see my [http://github.com/phyrrus9 github]
*LaserTag (v2)
*Various libraries [http://github.com/phyrrus9 here]
*Super Key Seeker 3 http://goo.gl/fpA7v
**Other SKS3 Links
*Source code http://goo.gl/jwf4y
*iMod https://github.com/phyrrus9/iMod-Installer
**To install:
*#Open Cydia and add "http://modtech.co/repo/iPhone"
*#Install the "iMod Installer" package
*#Open the imod app
*#Read the instructions, turn switch to on, and press install
*#Press the reboot button
*[http://goo.gl/7nxeo Phoenix 5.1 Jailbreak] (semi-untethered)
*[http://goo.gl/4gW4u Commander]
*[http://goo.gl/NeDwn iLoader] ([[OpeniBoot]])

== Contact ==
*Twitter: @phyrrus9
*Email: phyrrus9@gmail.com
*Facebook: If you can find me I will add you.

==iDevices==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
!
! iPod touch 1G
! iPod touch 2G (MB)
! iPod touch 2G (MC)
! iPod touch 3G
! iPod touch 4G
! iPhone 3G
! iPhone 3GS (MB)
! AppleTV 2G
! iPod Nano 6G
! iPhone 5 (A1428)
! iPhone 5S (A1533)
|-
! Size
| 16GB
| 16GB
| 8GB
| 32GB
| 8GB
| 8GB
| 32GB
| {{n/a}}
| 16GB
| 16GB
| 16GB
|-
! Firmware
| 3.1.2 + Android
| 3.1.3
| 3.1.3
| 5.1.1
| 6.0
| 3.1.3
| 6.1.3
| 5.1 (6.0)
| 1.2
| 7.0.2
| 7.1 beta
|-
! Jailbroken
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{no}}
| {{no}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{no}}
| {{no}}
| {{partial}}
| {{yes|Untethered custom}}
|-
! Developer
| {{No}}
| {{No}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
|-
! Still Owned?
| {{Yes}}
| {{No|(2011)}}
| {{No|(2010)}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
|}

==Other Devices==

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
!
! Macbook Pro (2011) MC
! Dell Latitude 2110
! HP Pavillion DV-x
! Dell xxxxx
! Powermac G4
! Nexus 7
! IBM T41
! RPi
|-
! Size
| 500GB
| 250GB
| 250GB
| 80GB
| 40GB
| 16GB
| 40GB
| xxGB
|-
! Processor
| 2.4gHZ Dual Core
| 1.86gHZ x2 single core
| 2.1gHZ Dual Core
| 2.4gHZ Dual Core
| 433mHZ G4
| NVIDIA Tegra 3 quad core
| 1.7gHZ single core
| 700mHZ armv6
|-
! Memory
| 4GB
| 2GB
| 4GB
| 4GB
| 256MB
| 1GB
| 1GB
| 512MB
|-
! First OS
| Mac OS X 10.9
| Windows 7
| Windows 8
| Debian Squeeze
| Mac OS X 10.4.11
| Cyanogenmod 10.1 Nightly
| Debian 7.0.2
| Archlinux
|-
! Second OS
| Mac OS X 10.8
| Debian Lenny
| Windows 7
| Android 2.1
| None
| None
| None
| None
|-
! Third OS
| Parabola Linux
| None
| Debian Squeeze
| None
| None
| None
| None
| None
|-
|}

==Virtual Machines==
1. Xubuntu (10.04?)

2. Debian Lenny

3. Parabola linux (x86_64)

User:Phyrrus9

2014-02-21T23:22:35Z

Ph0enix:

[[Category:Security Researchers]]
[[Category:The Private Dev Team]]
Ethan Laur (phyrrus9), [[iPhone]] hacker and programmer.

Skills include:
*C/C++
*C#
*Bash/batch/BASIC
*PHP
*HTML5
*CSS3
*buffer overflows :P
*Obj-C
*some assembly language (i386)
*Pro bathroom cleaner & cashier :P
*Will program for money ;) email me? Thanks.

I can pretty much do any of the tasks you need that don't involve 8 months of my time

Achivements:
*State Finals Champion Cross Country 2012 [http://www.superiortiming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/UP-Finals-Div-1-Boys.htm source]
*Member of the HackStore team
*Member of the Private Dev Team [http://198.154.63.108/ website here]
*Member of the [http://www.openjailbreak.org OpenJailbreak] team.

Current projects include:
*This list needs to be updated.. see my [http://github.com/phyrrus9 github]
*LaserTag (v2)
*Various libraries [http://github.com/phyrrus9 here]
*Super Key Seeker 3 http://goo.gl/fpA7v
**Other SKS3 Links
*Source code http://goo.gl/jwf4y
*iMod https://github.com/phyrrus9/iMod-Installer
**To install:
*#Open Cydia and add "http://modtech.co/repo/iPhone"
*#Install the "iMod Installer" package
*#Open the imod app
*#Read the instructions, turn switch to on, and press install
*#Press the reboot button
*[http://goo.gl/7nxeo Phoenix 5.1 Jailbreak] (semi-untethered)
*[http://goo.gl/4gW4u Commander]
*[http://goo.gl/NeDwn iLoader] ([[OpeniBoot]])

== Contact ==
*Twitter: @phyrrus9
*Email: phyrrus9@gmail.com
*Facebook: If you can find me I will add you.

==iDevices==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
!
! iPod touch 1G
! iPod touch 2G (MB)
! iPod touch 2G (MC)
! iPod touch 3G
! iPod touch 4G
! iPhone 3G
! iPhone 3GS (MB)
! AppleTV 2G
! iPod Nano 6G
! iPhone 5 (A1428)
! iPhone 5S (A1533)
|-
! Size
| 16GB
| 16GB
| 8GB
| 32GB
| 8GB
| 8GB
| 32GB
| {{n/a}}
| 16GB
| 16GB
| 16GB
|-
! Firmware
| 3.1.2 + Android
| 3.1.3
| 3.1.3
| 5.1.1
| 6.0
| 3.1.3
| 6.1.3
| 5.1 (6.0)
| 1.2
| 7.0.2
| 7.1 beta
|-
! Jailbroken
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{no}}
| {{no}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{no}}
| {{no}}
| {{partial}}
| {{yes|Untethered custom}}
|-
! Developer
| {{No}}
| {{No}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
|-
! Still Owned?
| {{Yes}}
| {{No|(2011)}}
| {{No|(2010)}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
|}

==Other Devices==

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
!
! Macbook Pro (2011) MC
! Dell Latitude 2110
! HP Pavillion DV-x
! Dell xxxxx
! Powermac G4
! Nexus 7
! IBM T41
! RPi
|-
! Size
| 500GB
| 250GB
| 250GB
| 80GB
| 40GB
| 16GB
| 40GB
| xxGB
|-
! Processor
| 2.4gHZ Dual Core
| 1.86gHZ x2 single core
| 2.1gHZ Dual Core
| 2.4gHZ Dual Core
| 433mHZ G4
| NVIDIA Tegra 3 quad core
| 1.7gHZ single core
| 700mHZ armv6
|-
! Memory
| 4GB
| 2GB
| 4GB
| 4GB
| 256MB
| 1GB
| 1GB
| 512MB
|-
! First OS
| Mac OS X 10.9
| Windows 7
| Windows 8
| Debian Squeeze
| Mac OS X 10.4.11
| Cyanogenmod 10.1 Nightly
| Debian 7.0.2
| Archlinux
|-
! Second OS
| Mac OS X 10.8
| Debian Lenny
| Windows 7
| Android 2.1
| None
| None
| None
| None
|-
! Third OS
| Parabola Linux
| None
| Debian Squeeze
| None
| None
| None
| None
| None
|-
|}

==Virtual Machines==
1. Xubuntu (10.04?)

2. Debian Lenny

3. Parabola linux (x86_64)

Category:Security Researcher

2014-02-21T23:20:54Z

Ph0enix: Created page with "Community members that don't quite fit in with the Category:Hackers But unlike most developers are focused on finding new exploits."

Community members that don't quite fit in with the [[Category:Hackers]] But unlike most developers are focused on finding new exploits.

User:Ph0enix

2014-02-21T23:17:38Z

Ph0enix:

__NOTOC__
[[Category:Security Researcher]]
[[Category:The Private Dev Team]]
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[SochiVail 11D5099e (iPhone_4_CDMA) | iOS 7.1 b5]] (11D5099e)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| [{{yes|Evasi0n7}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User:Ph0enix

2014-02-21T22:28:34Z

Ph0enix:

__NOTOC__
[[Category:Security Researcher]]
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[SochiVail 11D5099e (iPhone_4_CDMA) | iOS 7.1 b5]] (11D5099e)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| [{{yes|Evasi0n7}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User:Phyrrus9

2014-02-19T02:59:14Z

Ph0enix:

[[Category:Hackers]]
Ethan Laur (phyrrus9), [[iPhone]] hacker and programmer.

Skills include:
*C/C++
*C#
*Bash/batch/BASIC
*PHP
*HTML5
*CSS3
*buffer overflows :P
*Obj-C
*some assembly language (i386)
*Pro bathroom cleaner & cashier :P
*Will program for money ;) email me? Thanks.

I can pretty much do any of the tasks you need that don't involve 8 months of my time

Achivements:
*State Finals Champion Cross Country 2012 [http://www.superiortiming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/UP-Finals-Div-1-Boys.htm source]
*Member of the HackStore team
*Member of the Private Dev Team [http://198.154.63.108/ website here]
*Member of the [http://www.openjailbreak.org OpenJailbreak] team.

Current projects include:
*This list needs to be updated.. see my [http://github.com/phyrrus9 github]
*LaserTag (v2)
*Various libraries [http://github.com/phyrrus9 here]
*Super Key Seeker 3 http://goo.gl/fpA7v
**Other SKS3 Links
*Source code http://goo.gl/jwf4y
*iMod https://github.com/phyrrus9/iMod-Installer
**To install:
*#Open Cydia and add "http://modtech.co/repo/iPhone"
*#Install the "iMod Installer" package
*#Open the imod app
*#Read the instructions, turn switch to on, and press install
*#Press the reboot button
*[http://goo.gl/7nxeo Phoenix 5.1 Jailbreak] (semi-untethered)
*[http://goo.gl/4gW4u Commander]
*[http://goo.gl/NeDwn iLoader] ([[OpeniBoot]])

== Contact ==
*Twitter: @phyrrus9
*Email: phyrrus9@gmail.com
*Facebook: If you can find me I will add you.

==iDevices==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
!
! iPod touch 1G
! iPod touch 2G (MB)
! iPod touch 2G (MC)
! iPod touch 3G
! iPod touch 4G
! iPhone 3G
! iPhone 3GS (MB)
! AppleTV 2G
! iPod Nano 6G
! iPhone 5 (A1428)
! iPhone 5S (A1533)
|-
! Size
| 16GB
| 16GB
| 8GB
| 32GB
| 8GB
| 8GB
| 32GB
| {{n/a}}
| 16GB
| 16GB
| 16GB
|-
! Firmware
| 3.1.2 + Android
| 3.1.3
| 3.1.3
| 5.1.1
| 6.0
| 3.1.3
| 6.1.3
| 5.1 (6.0)
| 1.2
| 7.0.2
| 7.1 beta
|-
! Jailbroken
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{no}}
| {{no}}
| {{yes|Untethered}}
| {{no}}
| {{no}}
| {{partial}}
| {{yes|Untethered custom}}
|-
! Developer
| {{No}}
| {{No}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{No}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
|-
! Still Owned?
| {{Yes}}
| {{No|(2011)}}
| {{No|(2010)}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
| {{Yes}}
|}

==Other Devices==

{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
!
! Macbook Pro (2011) MC
! Dell Latitude 2110
! HP Pavillion DV-x
! Dell xxxxx
! Powermac G4
! Nexus 7
! IBM T41
! RPi
|-
! Size
| 500GB
| 250GB
| 250GB
| 80GB
| 40GB
| 16GB
| 40GB
| xxGB
|-
! Processor
| 2.4gHZ Dual Core
| 1.86gHZ x2 single core
| 2.1gHZ Dual Core
| 2.4gHZ Dual Core
| 433mHZ G4
| NVIDIA Tegra 3 quad core
| 1.7gHZ single core
| 700mHZ armv6
|-
! Memory
| 4GB
| 2GB
| 4GB
| 4GB
| 256MB
| 1GB
| 1GB
| 512MB
|-
! First OS
| Mac OS X 10.9
| Windows 7
| Windows 8
| Debian Squeeze
| Mac OS X 10.4.11
| Cyanogenmod 10.1 Nightly
| Debian 7.0.2
| Archlinux
|-
! Second OS
| Mac OS X 10.8
| Debian Lenny
| Windows 7
| Android 2.1
| None
| None
| None
| None
|-
! Third OS
| Parabola Linux
| None
| Debian Squeeze
| None
| None
| None
| None
| None
|-
|}

==Virtual Machines==
1. Xubuntu (10.04?)

2. Debian Lenny

3. Parabola linux (x86_64)

User:Ph0enix

2014-02-19T02:56:48Z

Ph0enix:

[[Category:Hackers]]
__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[SochiVail 11D5099e (iPhone_4_CDMA) | iOS 7.1 b5]] (11D5099e)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| [{{yes|Evasi0n7}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-18T22:29:46Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-18T22:06:44Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

{{Talk Archive}}
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
==iPhone-Elite==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

==Boot-args cleanup==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

==The iPhone Wiki re-design==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
What about just removing the text-shadow element for now? I think pages would be easier to read without it. Here's an example: [[:File:Noshadow.png]]. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah removing the shadow will make everything seem more flat but like [[User:http|http]] I'm still using the classic [http://theiphonewiki.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook MonoBook skin] --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
I would like to be added to the list of hackers for my work with the Private Dev Team and the [[Chronic Dev (team)|Chronic Dev Team]] in addition to my release of the Phoenix Semi-Untethered. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
::No. [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]], a team member found the vulnerability. I am the one who exploited it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])
:::I can back up this "claim". I was a part of it. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Whatever happened to this? --[[User:Phyrrus9|phyrrus9]]
:::::So this went cold and i am going to again request that this change be made. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I'm gonna say no. I don't see any notable accomplishments to merit this. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 21:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::'''No'''. The first step would be to get to the category [[:Category:Hackers|hackers]]. You can get there by finding a vulnerability that is used with an exploit in a jailbreak - or by writing a new exploit. Remember that it's not allowed to add yourself to that category. Instead of finding a vulnerability you could also be member of either The [[iPhone Dev Team]] or [[Chronic Dev]] or [[evad3rs]]. After being in that category, the next step would be that you're famous enough from all those hackers there to get to the main page. The people chosen are discussed here. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

==Orphaned articles==
This is an interesting search: [[Special:LonelyPages]] - "The following pages are not linked from or transcluded into other pages in The iPhone Wiki." I'm not sure where all of those articles should be linked, but figuring that out could be a useful project for somebody. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 05:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

==Easy tasks for new editors==
* Finish converting the remaining error codes listed here [[MobileDevice_Library#Known_Error_Codes]] into the proper mach_return_t codes they should be displayed as. (convert the negative number listed into hex, strip any leading "FF" so it should be in the format "0xe80000" followed by two numbers) --[[User:Dirkg|Dirkg]] ([[User talk:Dirkg|talk]]) 22:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== A1XXX model numbers vs. "GSM"/"CDMA"/"Global"/"Cellular"/etc. ==
I know that this topic was [[The iPhone Wiki:Community portal/2013#iPhone 5|already discussed earlier this year]], but it didn't seem to come to a consensus, and the introduction of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] brought a lot of model numbers. Some of them may "overlap" (think models A1429 and A1442 for the [[iPhone 5]]), but there's simply too many to give names to. There are at least two that can connect to CDMA networks, and all of them can connect to GSM. In addition, with the sheer amount of models, it doesn't seem likely for one model to be treated as a "global" model. Therefore, I changed the iPhone 5c to use model numbers. I would like to do the same to some of the devices that are already present on the wiki though— the same ones from when I first brought up this idea. The GSM/CDMA names work very well for the [[iPad 2]] and [[iPhone 4]]. Things are slightly murkier for the [[iPad 3|iPad (3rd gen.)]], [[iPad 4|iPad (4th gen.)]], [[iPad mini 1G]], and [[iPhone 5]] though; all of those devices' cellular models can connect to GSM networks, so it seems like nonsense to call some of them the "GSM model." The A1XXX model numbers are also how Apple tells the difference between the different models of these devices. Have any opinions changed? Or perhaps someone new might have something to say about this? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 06:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I actually like the idea as it does get complicated now with the new devices coming like said and we would have to do this for all devices. Although, if we did this, we would have to move all the key pages that have keys on to support this. That would not be a big problem as we could limit the moves to say 20 per day. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I suggest we wait a bit until we see what models of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] will exist. But in general, I like the idea of using only the A1nnn numbers. The only issue I see right now is that Apple differentiates between A1532 GSM and A1532 CDMA. If there are real hardware differences between these two, then we're screwed again. That's why I suggest to wait until we know these exact model types. On the disambiguation page I added the GSM/CDMA model differentiation already (as Apple does). If they turn out to be the same, we can remove it again, but I wonder why Apple lists two models (with different bands supported) there now. Someone also added the "CDMA" mark to one of the others, but that's not how Apple marks them, so I suggest to remove that mark there again. If everything can be differentiated by these A-model-numbers, then yes, we should change the old pages too. Including all key pages. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do know there are 2 CDMA and 3-4 GSM for the [[iPhone 5c]] alone. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Ahem… ''All'' of the iPhone 5c models can do GSM communications. Hence one of the reasons why I want to ditch the "GSM"/"Global"/etc. labels in favor of A1XXX model numbers. ;P --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::One thing is, what about iPod touch 5 as that has two model numbers that are the same device, same with iPhone5,2. How would we get around that? I suppose we could like both separated with a forward slash. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, we could just use something like "[[n42ap|iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)]]." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::Yeah I thought that but what about the iPhone 4 GSM and GSM Rev A? They both seem to be A1432. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::This is why I'm against using the A1XXX model numbers instead of the current GSM/Global thing. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::::I had no plans to change the way we refer to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 (Apple does use GSM/CDMA, and for those devices it works fine). If a new iPhone 5S revision comes along, Apple will probably refer to it as a "Rev A" thing, and so will we. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:Referencing Adam's reply above, if we had took that to the key pages, it'd be <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432)]]</code> which would mess ''everything'' up. What could we do? Use <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432 Rev A)]]</code>? No. That doesn't look good. The current way of referring to everything by their supported network type (GSM/CDMA/Global) helps in going to a different page.
:Let's say I'm on [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 GSM)]] and I want to go the CDMA device. What do I do? Go to the URL and replace <code>GSM</code> with <code>CDMA</code>. With the model numbers, I'd have to navigate to [[Firmware]], then find the link, or find out what the model number of the CDMA variant is and replace the model number in the URL with that. 
:Ok, who navigates by the URL and search bar? ''I do''. And I'm sure there's '''many''' people out there that prefer to navigate with the search bar if they know the page name. If we go by model number, the AJAX search results just list pages with a model number in parenthesis. '''How does that help'''? I'd either have to ''know'' the model number of the device I want, or visit ''each one'' until I find the page I need.
:Sorry for the rant, but I am '''strongly''' against this. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do suppose we could just trash the buildtrain all together to shorten it down too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Dropping the Build Train would only ''increase'' the workload. Besides, what's the harm with it? We've been using the same page title structure since forever, and it's worked. "''If it ain't broke, don't fix it''". The current system works, so ''why'', other than the fact that Apple refers to them differently, should we change this? In addition, we don't refer to everything the way Apple does. The [[iPad mini 1G]] is referred to as the "iPad mini". The [[iPad 3]] is refered to as "The New iPad". The [[iPad 4]] is refered to as "iPad with Retina Display"[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/]. Are the key pages titled <code>BrightonMaps 10B329 (The New iPad, Wi-Fi+3G for AT&T and Verizon)</code>? No. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::But the reason we want to not use the variants is because the new devices that are coming out are breaking he structure and also CDMA versions can use GSM in the 5c plus we have like 4 for GSM alone. I only meant drop buildtrain to shorten the urls down. For the iPhone 4 GSM Rev A we would have to list it as <code>iPhone 4 A1432 Rev</code> unless another idea is thought of. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::No. Anything involving moving key pages to change their title I am ''completely'' against. As for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c, we ultimately have to wait. There may be different types, but if they all work with the same firmware, then what do we do then? Use <code>A1456/A1504</code>? I don't want to do that. It can get confusing in the future if that list were to be huge. With ''5'' different models for the iPhone 5c ''alone'', it's just not practical. For the fact that all support GSM, but not all support CDMA, we just do what we've ''been'' doing: "GSM" and "Global". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::There's nothing wrong with changing the titles of pages that don't even exist though. If *all* of the models use the same firmware, just go with "iPhone 5s." If they happen to be partitioned into two different firmwares again, that will certainly complicate things, but it wouldn't be worse than nonsense like "GSM," "GSM [<nowiki />Global]," "CDMA," "CDMA [<nowiki />Global]," or "GSM [<nowiki />Global Plus TD-LTE]." If it's just one oddball, we could just have "iPhone 5s" and "iPhone 5s A1XXX" (whatever the odd one is), and include a link on the former page to say "keys for model A1XXX are on this page." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::I probably didn't phrase that well… I wasn't thinking of how Apple markets the product, but rather more along the lines of how they refer to it in, say, the tech specs page or support documents— the pages that shows the messier side to their simple sugar coating. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::You keep misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I'm proposing. I never said anything about dropping, say, "iPhone 5" so firmware page titles would look like [[Sundance 10A405 (A1428)]]. I want to change the GSM/Global part to the A1XXX number, so it would probably show like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428)]]. (If a hardware revision were made, it would probably look like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428 Rev A)]].) From time to time, I edit URLs to browse the wiki too. But the GSM/Global identifiers don't work that well; again, '''all iPhone 5 models can connect to GSM'''. That's not really helpful. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::I suggest we drop the A and use Rev. As for the idea of changing to A1XXX, I see no issues and am for the idea. I admit it can cause chaos when we move the pages but we could limit the moving per day of course. Overall, I think it will be worth it. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 10:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::No. Don't drop the <code>A</code> from <code>Rev A</code>. Why would you even think to? You want to call them what Apple calls them, and the [[n90bap|revised iPhone 4 GSM]] is referred to with <code>Rev A</code>. In addition, there have been <code>Rev ''B''</code> things before, such as the [[S5L8947]] (A5 Rev B) used in the [[j33iap|revised Apple TV 3G]]. In addition, think of all the redirects we would need to keep for sites that link to key pages directly. I have even seen sites that still link with the URLs as <code>/wiki/index.php?title={Title}</code> instead of the year old change to <code>/wiki/{Title}</code>. The wiki handles that internally for us, but the redirects made in the moves would have to be kept. Currently, only the [[iPhone 5]] and [[iPad 4]] are the only devices referred to by their model numbers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That's why I don't want to change it. It's worked for us, and we have no idea how the new firmwares will be handled. I am betting that there will only be two firmware types - one for the GSM, and one for the Global (GSM+CDMA) model. The only reason they are split, IIRC, is because AT&T uses different LTE bands than rest of the GSM world.
:::Ultimately, the GSM/CDMA/Global monikors haven't caused any ''naming conflicts''. Ok, you don't want to use the ''marketing'' title. What about the way they are referred to on [[Apple Developer Center|ADC]], because that seems to be what you want. I may be misreading what you're saying again, but if we're going to do that, let's use their ''full'' title. Something <code>(iPad [4th generation Model A1458])</code> (iPad 4 Wi-Fi) and <code>(iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for Verizon])</code> (iPad 3 Global). Does the first one tell you if the device is Wi-Fi or a Wi-Fi+3G model? Does the second one tell you ''at all'' that it is an [[iPad 3]], or that it supports GSM? No.
:::Apple has a history of being inconsistent. For example, the iPad 3 Wi-Fi is referred to on ADC (and iTunes) as "iPad Wi-Fi (3rd generation)" while the iPad 3 GSM is referred to as "iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for AT&T]". What happened to the "3rd generation"? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::We could always list as <code>iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)</code> etc instead if that would be better. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::Why is there a need to explicitly keep "Wi-Fi" in a key page's title? All you need is a way to distinguish what model it is from its other variants— the A1XXX model number does just that. It's not like we referred to the AppleTV3,2 as "Apple TV 3G (New Single-Core A5)" or something. And obviously, we can use common sense to address the 3rd generation iPad issue you brought up… Now you're just nitpicking. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 05:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I think we should wait until we see the firmware for iPhone 5c/5s and then decide. TBH, as [[User:5urd|5urd]] said, it is ok as it is but of course if once the new firmware is out it is more confusing, then we can think again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 14:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Come to think of it, we can use a mix of both; we can keep the "Global" moniker, but drop the "GSM" moniker in favor of the A1XXX model number. (The "GSM" moniker is the one that's been bothering me.) I think this works well for the iPad 3 (which is actually split into "CDMA" and "Global—" it probably doesn't need to be done for this), iPad 4, iPad mini 1G, and iPhone 5, but this leaves the question of what to do for the iPhone 5C/5S. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::That would look worse! If we are going to do it, we have to do it for '''''all'''''. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::What is the status on this now? --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::This discussion has stagnated, but I'm firing it up again— I want to fix this before the end of the year, so this can probably be seen as an ultimatum. Now that Apple has pushed a 7.1 beta to developers, we now know how Apple's splitting the new iPhones up— and it's by A1XXX model numbers still. :\ That's probably the path the wiki will go down, but I do have another idea. The other idea I have in mind is using the A1XXX model number for the cellular devices launched last year. But for this year's iPhones, the FCC ID is actually different between the two, so we could actually use that. Before this gets nitpicked on, the last letter can get changed to an "X" to signify that it's a wildcard of sorts. It's not a pretty solution so I do expect it to get shot down (hence why I'm going with the A1XXX model numbers unless everyone says otherwise), but I'm still throwing it out there in case everyone actually likes that. Everyone is welcome to suggest alternatives, but I '''will''' eliminate that GSM label before the year ends. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::That is worse, nobody knows the FCC ID off the top of their head. I would suggest "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" if anything. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Using "iPhone5,1" or "iPhone6,2" is even ''less'' friendly… The FCC ID can be looked up in Settings or the back of a device. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Well that is not the point. I say either use the firmware name or leave it alone. See what others thing though. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I currently plan on using the A1XXX model numbers— the FCC ID proposal was just thrown out there in the off chance that someone might like it. I'm not really a fan of it myself, but the FCC ID is probably the simplest way to figure out if it's an iPhone6,1 or iPhone6,2 since both have multiple A1XXX model numbers. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::I agree to get rid of the "GSM" name, as almost all iPhones support GSM. The Axxxx numbers would be nice, but as some phones have several numbers, like A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530 (what is actually different between them?) we can't use it. For the FCC-ID, we can't use that either, because for example the iPhone 5 with FCC-ID BCG-E2599A stands for the GSM/A1428 and also for the GSM+CDMA/A1429 version. So I suggest to either use the identifier (like iPhone2,1) or better the internal name (like n88ap). That would have the advantage to separate them further, because the iPhone 4 A1332 has two internal versions: iPhone3,1/n90ap and the iPhone3,2/n90bap. The bigger question is where you want to use this. That determines mainly the name. On all the key pages? Then it must be a name that is different between models that use different firmwares. And regarding key pages, maybe we should delete all the key pages from this wiki and move them into some database instead and provide a nice user interface and API around it and integrate that into the wiki somehow. That way we can change all pages with one simple edit. For the name, I prefer the internal name. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::We would have to edit key pages too. They should not be removed however. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I wasn't trying to say that we had to decide on one way to differentiate ''everything''; "GSM" does work fine for, say, the iPhone 4. The proposal I brought up today was using the FCC ID only for this year's (2013's) iPhones— last year's cellular devices would get the A1XXX model numbers (i.e. two different solutions for two different years). But as of right now, I like how using A1XXX model numbers sounds for all of the affected devices, mostly because that's the path Apple's going in their developer portal. Something like "iPhone 5s (Model A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530)" is admittedly a mouthful for this year's iPhones though. At the moment, I'm inquiring about how to label it on [[Firmware]] and such pages, but I'm sure the outcome can be adapted for key page titles as well. As for differences between the models, it seems to be the supported LTE bands. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I still think that unless it is "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" it will be complicated but on the other hand, I kind of like the idea that [[User:Http|http]] had, using the internal identifiers like this "iPhone 5 (n42ap)". The only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of a flood moving the key pages, although this can be done like 15 per day each or something. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::::I'm pretty sure the only key page that exists for an A5 (or newer) device is [[Telluride 9A406 (iPhone 4S)]]. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::::That was an example. I know there are no more A5 pages, only the one you said and two beta for iPhone 4S. I just meant that it would show the design. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals ==
Since this discussion has become extremely lengthy, here are the proposals (to my understanding) for changing the labels, each of which can be subject to changes (i.e. dropping the word "Model" from Proposal A). In an effort to conserve space (ironically, this still adds a significant amount of length), I only included a few models, which should give an idea of the proposal. Basically anything with an A5 or newer is involved. Feel free to edit this list if I missed or totally misinterpreted something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:25, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
# Proposal A (A1XXX numbers)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1456/A1532)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)]]
# Proposal B (A1XXX + FCC ID)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2644A)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2694X)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c BCG‑E2694X)]]
# Proposal C (-AP Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (p101ap)
#* iPad 4 (p102ap)
#* iPad 4 (p103ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n41ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n42ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n48ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n49ap)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 p101ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n42ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n49ap)]]
# Proposal D (iPhoneX,Y Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,4)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,5)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,6)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,2)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,3)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,4)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad3,4)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,2)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,4)]]

:I like this [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (3,4)]] or [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (iPad3,4)]]. I see there are 4 ways to approach this;
1. Change every single device. 
2. Change just devices with different variants, iPad 2+, iPad mini+, iPhone 4, iPhone 5+. 
3. Change A5+ only (which I hate the idea of). 
4. Change nothing at all. 
--[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::My intention for this was to be a ''neutral'' (i.e. opinion-free) spot where all of the proposals were being mentioned, so people could easily see the proposed changes without any bias… v.v --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::TBH, I think it is better as it is, but I just stated my opinion that only A5+ would make in inconsistent. Though you could argue it is already, that is down to Apple and furthermore, just A5+ would still not eliminate iPhone 4 (GSM, GSM Rev A or CDMA). --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:07, November 22, 2013‎ (UTC)}}
:Do it like #4, and do them all. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 18:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::It will be a pain, but I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea as it would make it much much better in the end. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say A and B are impossible due to various numbers in the same model. I like C best. For variant C you could also leave away the "ap" at the end, because every model has that, so it would be even shorter. For D, that's simply longer names and these names are not used at many places, but I could live with that version as well. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Taking into account everyone's thoughts on this, I think we'll probably go with option C. The wiki already uses the "-ap" identifiers for the model pages, and an identifier like "iPad3,4" may confuse someone into thinking it's a model of the [[iPad 3]]. (I would still like to use the A1XXX numbers since Apple does that, but nobody else seems to agree now…) I'll give this a few more days for any last words before acting on it. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::It '''will''' get changed before the year ends. I don't know why your opinion keeps changing, but I have already explained the reason for changing it. You even agreed that it needs to be changed. I'm still open to suggestions on what to change it to though. Keep in mind that the change will affect not only key pages, but also how the devices will be referred to throughout the wiki. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I know it will. I said it is fine to change. I like bot #3 and #4. Only point I must make is that I feel we should change all devices with multiple variants, including iPad Air and iPhone 4. This way, it is consistent and also removes GSM etc altogether. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Adam, if you're going to change some of them then change all of them. This includes iPods. Whatever the outcome, be consistent. As for the outcome itself, I really think we should just use device identifiers (iPhone2,1). That's what we're actually differentiating by, so it only makes sense to refer to devices by them. I don't think there would be any confusion, especially considering we'll keep the name of the device next to it regardless. Barring that, the next best option is ***ap. The other options don't make any sense considering modern devices. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 10:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea, though I do not mind if we do every device or just ones with multiple variants, as long as that included pre A5 (iPhone 4) too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals (cont.) ==
So this entire discussion came up because we need to remove "GSM" from models, because there are many models nowadays where the non-GSM model or Global or whatever model, all support GSM. One suggestion was the FCC number, but I think we already agreed that this is out of discussion (only used within USA and nobody refers to this number). So we have to use either
*The Axxxx number (like A1332 for the iPhone 4). This is how Apple identifies their devices.
*The ap number (like n94ap or just short N94). This is the internal name and used in internal references, like in the [[iBEC]] or [[iBSS]] filenames within an [[IPSW]]. (This is also what iH8sn0w has on his stickers on the devices.)
*The 1,2 number (like iPad1,1 for the iPad 1G). This identifier is used in the [[IPSW]] filenames.
There are several issues with using one over the other:
*Some devices (iPad 1G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5c, iPhone 5s to be exact) have multiple Axxxx numbers for the same ap number/1,2 number. For example the iPad 1G: A1219 (WiFi model) and A1337 (GSM model) both have k48ap / iPad1,1. So only the Axxxx number could be used to replace the "GSM" identifier.
*The iPhone 4 has for A1332 two ap numbers/1,2 numbers: A1332 stands for both n90ap/iPhone3,1 and also for n90bap/iPhone3,2.
*The iPod touch 5G has the same 1,2 number for two ap numbers/Axxxx numbers: iPod5,1 stands for both A1421/n78ap and also for A1509/n78aap.
I understand the point from [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] somehow that we should make it consistent and change it everywhere in the same manner. The question is where to change what. So where do we use these terms?
*The biggest affected change would be the key pages, so any change there should be carefully considered. Currently we use something like: "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". So the discussion here is just about the change in the brackets. For the devices where no different hardware versions exist, I think the current naming is ok. So let's just continue using that. Only where different (sub-)devices exist for the same main model (like for the iPhone 5c) and they require a different firmware file, then we need to specify it. So we need to add something after the "iPhone 5c" to specify the difference. For older devices, we should leave it as it is, because it works very well there. For example the iPad 1G WiFi and GSM require different firmware, but can be differentiated that way. And we can't use the ap number, because both versions use k48ap, respectively iPad1,1. So I think we should leave the old devices as they are. For newer devices, like the iPhone 5c, there are only two variations for the firmware, but six different Axxxx numbers and we don't want to list all of them in the firmware name. We also cannot use "GSM" for the reason mentioned at the introduction. I would prefer to use the ap number there, but that yields to problems. In case of the iPod touch 5G, we have two models (A1421/n78ap and also A1509/n78aap). Fortunately both use the same firmware, so we don't have to specify anything. But if Apple would release an additional model that would require a different firmware, we would have to specify the name even here and we can't add a name like "n78ap+n78aap". The name iPod5,1 there seems to be the obvious choice, as it is contained in the ipsw name already, so it is unlikely that Apple will change that. The only question is the format then. My choice would be to keep it short, something like "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c [5,4])" instead of the current "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". We shouldn't repeat the word "iPhone" there. And we shouldn't remove the "5c" of the original name.
*We also have some hardware lists, for example on the key pages titles where we list under iPad 2: Wi-Fi, GSM, CDMA, Wi-Fi (A). They link directly to our ap-pages, for example the "Wi-Fi (A)" name links to "k93aap". I think we don't need to change this. For the iPhone 5c, we have GSM and Global and they also link to the ap-pages. The link remains there, so we would only change the name. I suggest to use the same short name as in the key page extension, so something like my suggested "[5,4]" for example (instead of "GSM").
*On the [[Models]] page, we have the column "Variant", which also lists "GSM" and "Global" etc. That would also need to change. I suggest to leave it for older devices where "GSM" is a valid differentiation. For newer devices we might list the bands it supports or something else.
*On hardware pages, like [[iPhone]], we also have names and links in the title bar. For devices that have different sub-devices (like the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5/5c/5s) I suggest to rename the title names to the ap-names, as they link to the respective page. I would not change the title "iPhone 3G" to "N82ap" although it links there. So this change would only apply to sub-titles.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 00:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:Include iPhone 4 in the change and use same format everywhere on the wiki. I agree that we do not need to change devices with only one variant such as iPhone 3GS. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree on that. 3GS, 3G and the 1st iPhone are anyway devices where I do not see too many wiki-related changes in the future.--[[User:M2m|M2m]] ([[User talk:M2m|talk]]) 09:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:I don't like how the abbreviated form of "iPad3,4" looks— I understand wanting to keep "iPad 4" in the name, but I can't come up with alternatives besides going with only the identifier. (Another issue is that MediaWiki's markup parser doesn't seem to like square brackets in links— I tried using <code><nowiki><nowiki /></nowiki></code>.) Having thought it over for a few days, I'm more receptive to changing all multi-variant devices (i.e. including the iPhone 4), but my concern about the Recent changes getting flooded with page moves still exists. The page moves should be done on "quiet" days, when the wiki doesn't see much activity. That being said, this is my understanding of the proposed changes. Does everyone agree with the following?
:* On pages like [[iPhone]], the variant labels will be replaced with the identifier, e.g. iPhone3,1/iPhone3,2/iPhone3,3. (An exception will probably need to be made for the iPad1,1. The "Internal Name" row should also be modified because there will be duplicated information.)
:* On [[Models]], the variant labels will be replaced with something else for the iPhone 5 and newer. (I feel like there are too many LTE bands to list in such a spot, but I don't have any better ideas.)
:* On pages such as [[Firmware]] and [[Jailbreak]], labels will be changed to things like "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" and "iPad 4 (iPad3,4)." Single-variant devices like the Apple TV 2G will remain as-is.
:* The key pages will be moved to a different title, to resemble the following.
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (AppleTV3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (Apple TV AppleTV3,1)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad2,4)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 2 iPad2,4)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)]]
:** [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPod touch 5G)]]
:Do let me know if I missed something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with your idea [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]], but make every page use iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) etc. Of course if pages use iPhone 4 (GSM) now, change that to iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) or iPhone 4 (3,1). I would suggest moving 10 pages per day for the iPhone 4 to avoid flooding. I do not want some pages to include the AP identifier and some others iPhone3,1 for example. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Several comments:
*The square brackets were just an idea, nothing agreed on that yet. And yes, let's forget this idea if it has problems with MediaWiki.
*The beginning of the name should remain, otherwise we're getting inconsistent with other pages. I agree with [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] on this. To keep it short, my favorite would be something like "iPhone 4 (3,1)" then. But to make it more clear, "iPhone4 (iPhone3,1)" is also ok to me. If you wanted to leave the first part away and just use "iPhone3,1", then we would have to rename ALL pages (that's also an option).
*Regarding flooding, I prefer that we do all changes at once, at an agreed date/time, done by [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. Maybe in two steps: first step to change the few hardware pages plus one page of each device of the key pages. In the second step the rest. This would ensure that any misunderstandings get catched in the first step, before all pages are renamed. I don't like to have 20 edits per day that I have to go through. Better all at once, but only after agreement of all.
*Yes, we can do iPhone 4 too, if that't the only missing one. It was a misunderstanding on my part for iPad GSM/WiFi, as this doesn't have different firmwares (only on hardware pages needed).
*Regarding the proposed listing of the bands on the [[Models]] page, Variant column, we could only list the bands that are different to make it short.

Can we list here what pages would be affected by the changes? Feel free to edit this list here within my comment. Here's what I have in mind:
*[[Models]]
*[[Apple TV]], [[iPad]], [[iPad mini]], [[iPhone]], [[iPod touch]]
*[[Firmware Keys]]
*[[Firmware]], [[Beta Firmware]]
*[[Jailbreak]]
*[[Application Processor]]
*[[Main Page]] - for Application Processors and Baseband Devices.
*[[:Category:Baseband]] - some pages state models and also the baseband devices, such as [[MDM6600]].
*[[Template:Keys]]
*[[P0sixspwn]]
*[[:Timeline]]
*[[SHSH]]
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (like [[Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 GSM)]]), total 69 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (A) (like [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4372q (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A)]]), total 21 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 CDMA (like [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 CDMA)]]), total 50 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 5 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5c and 5s (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 Wi-Fi)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 GSM (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 GSM)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 CDMA (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 CDMA)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 CDMA (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Cellular (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Cellular (nonexistent)
The key pages would get moved without redirect and all references updated. The references should also be in this list above. Add it to the list if I forgot anything.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 15:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes that is fine. I said the 10 a day to avoid a big flood, but I do not mind either way. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:13, January 1, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::Looks good. I amended the list to include the iPads as well. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::So most of you seem to agree on the the generic change now. But what is missing is the exact naming. We have three variations still in discussion:
:::::#"iPhone 4 (3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 3,1"
:::::#"iPhone 4 iPhone3,1"
:::::I just noticed that we cannot use the round brackets, because this entire part is already enclosed in round brackets - otherwise we would have nested brackets and in grammar I think you have to use square brackets which are not allowed in MediaWiki. So this leaves us with #3 and #4. #3 looks silly without the brackets, so we probably have to use #4 as [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] suggested. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I agree with #4, looks better as I feel that #3 needs some sort of brackets if we used that. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]])
::::::Wow, time really flies when you sleep all day. I've missed a ''lot''. Ok. I'm happy we decided to use the firmware moniker instead of something else. Personally, I don't like #1 because it just looks weird IMO. In addition, #1 and #2 would require the use of brackets (<code>(iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>) which would require the use of <code><nowiki/></code> all over the place, and that will get not only ugly, but annoying. I agree #3 looks weird. However, #4 just looks redundent. I personally would like just <code>iPhone3,1</code>, but if I would have to put my vote on one of those last two, it would be #4. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 08:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::One last comment: We could also just use "iPhone3,1" (leaving the leading "iPhone 4" completely away). That would have two advantages and two disadvantages:
:::::::*+ shorter
:::::::*+ future-proof; if we ever decide to rename the rest as well, this is the way to name it
:::::::*- somehow inconsistent with non-ambiguous other key pages (although ambiguous and non-ambiguous pages are different now anyway)
:::::::*- less easy to understand from the name what device it is (but the iOS version is also not directly visible)
:::::::--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::To me, that makes it worse. Why can we not use the rounded "()" brackets? I mean, it will only be duplicated in the key page urls, in which if it must be, just do "iPhone 4 iPhone3,1". Does not seem too bad to me. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::We ''don't want to'' use parenthesis because then we get double parenthesis (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 (3,1))</code>). We would have to use braces (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>), but MediaWiki chokes when there's braces in a link unless you use <code><nowiki/></code>; and that would mean ''everywhere'' there's a firmware link. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::That ''is'' what I suggested in my reply... As for your first disadvantage, it only applies to the iPads where Apple has gotten confusing. Actually, now that I think of that, option #4 above does look nice. However, I still don't like the redundency of having <code>iPhone</code> in there twice. And as I said before, options #1 and #3 just look weird. So we're stuck at either redundency or looking weird. But then again, it wouldn't be redundent for the non-existent iPad key page links where Apple decided to be annoying with their firmware monikers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Could we not just use the parenthesis but just not in the key page URL's? I mean, "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" but in the urls for key pages, <code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone_4_iPhone3,1)</code>? That seems fine here. The underscores are currently there anyway. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::This seems fine to me… Well, aside from the underscores. Other than that, we're actually already doing the same thing until the changes are implemented. (Key pages say "(iPhone 4 GSM)" while other parts of the wiki say "iPhone 4 (GSM model).") --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::I think that "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" does look the nicest, and I don't really feel like it's redundant. I also like the idea of just saying 'iPhone3,1'. If either of those options doesn't work, it might be good to do something like "iPhone 4; iPhone3,1" or "iPhone 4 | iPhone3,1".--[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 16:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The underscores were stated due to the key page URL's use that. I did not mean use that throughout. Was just to give an example, [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:16, January 2, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::::::::So we have to decide between
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)" (name on link could be "Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [iPhone3,1])" or whatever fits best in the context)
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone3,1)"
::::::::::I would prefer #2 (for advantages/disadvantages see list above), but could also live with the other one. Votes? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would prefer #1 because it would be more consistent. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:14, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Count my vote for #2. I could go either way, but option #2 looks nicer. But just to double-check (yet again), we ''are'' using "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" in places like [[Firmware]]'s headings, right? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::Headings/titles/links: we didn't decide on that, but I think we can put whatever fits best in the context of a page. So that's a 'yes'. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

== Key page template ==
I actually like the idea of a database to an extent. I bet I could put together an extension that creates a [[Special:SpecialPages|special page]] that allows read access to everyone (and r/w access to users). Any edits to the key "pages" wouldn't cause a [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] log. If we ever needed to update the layout, we would just need to update the extension. We could even have an API.
The only limitation is that updates to the extension would require either [[User:geohot|George]] or [[User:Dialexio|Alex]] needing to upload the fix. If we were to set up an external site, then all links to it would need to be wrapped with <code>...</code>.
Maybe a simple extension that takes links and redirects you to the external site? That could work. Like, we would have a link to, say, <code>[[<nowiki/>Special:Keys/iPad1,1/9A405]]</code> which would give an HTTP <code>301 Moved Permanently</code> header to, say, <code><nowiki>http://ioskeys.com/iPad1,1/9A405</nowiki></code>. Granted, someone would have to pay for the domain, but it would solve this problem. I may be able to pay for the domain if I make enough money by the time I finish writing everything. Any opposition? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:I do not like the idea. I like the idea of the database to a degree, but I think that the pages should remain on this wiki. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't see this solving any problem— the backlash against changing the key page template was because of (unnecessary?) changes to the arguments, and the frequency of how often such changes were being proposed/applied. How would a database prevent it? For instance, let's say the database columns are all decided on. Suddenly, it's decided that SHA-1 hashes should be added as well, or perhaps "VFDecryptKey" will be renamed to "FSKey." People submitting keys would still be bothered with having to adjust for those changes. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::That with the database is something I'll implement anyway (if not someone else is faster, as I'm quite busy). I just threw that in here as it might solve the problem of the frequent template updates (which is/was wrong anyway). From there it would be easy to create the VFDecrypt page with an overview link or lists of missing keys and that stuff, so the wiki would not need any direct links. But it would mean that we either completely remove all keys here from the wiki and embrace that solution or have them still duplicate (which then doesn't solve the problem). Dialexio: renaming columns can be handled without interface changes, but that's another topic. So let's forget about this database thing for now and we can discuss again when I have something. We certainly don't want to add extensions for that. So back to the discussion about the renaming: If I understood this correctly, you only want to rename A5+ devices and therefore no key pages would be affected. Is my understanding correct? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::As long as the pages stay on this wiki, I do not mind. Although, a database could be pointless as with only 50 more pages to edit for the new format, there is no planned new format/changes again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::About the renaming, that is correct; I'm only interested in changing the cellular labels on A5/+ devices. (Well, the iPad 2 can remain as-is.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well that would just make things more complicated/inconsistent. We should do all or none. About the template idea, there is also no need as it is not likely we will change the format again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Do we really need to CHANGE THE FORMAT 50 TIMES IN A ROW? The old one before everything was messed with worked fine enough. [[User:Winocm|Winocm]] ([[User talk:Winocm|talk]]) 18:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::It was actually one change, which was completed. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Login prompt revision suggestion==
I wrote a suggestion here: [[MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt]] (since I don't have permission to edit [[MediaWiki:Loginprompt]] directly) - I'd be interested in whether it sounds like a good idea to other people. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

==Homepage suggestions==
Under "Application Development", what about linking to [http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Main_Page iPhoneDevWiki]? It's also a community-edited technical resource, and it links to this wiki. It could be helpful to add a little more detail to "Get [[up to speed]] in the community.", like this: "Get [[up to speed]] in the community - learn about how jailbreaks work." Under "Definitions", it could be helpful to list all the firmware tags in one line or sub-list, similar to how Jailbreak is organized next to Tethered jailbreak and Untethered jailbreak, both to save space and help readers understand the list. --[[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:A link to the iPhoneDevWiki sounds good. I wonder if we should have an "External Links" or "Other Resources" section to include links to other sites (such as the [http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ iPhone Dev Team blog]) though. As for the "Up to Speed" page, I feel like the entire page could be reworked a bit— and perhaps even receive a new, clearer name ([[Introduction]]? [[Preface]]? Or something else?)— the current name makes it sound like it's for people that last paid attention to jailbreaking when the App Store didn't exist. And yeah, moving the IMG3 tags to a sub-list sounds like a really good idea. (Admittedly, I actually don't care for its inclusion in the first place, but that's just a personal preference.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
::There's already [[Useful Links]] with some links to other core community resources (which could be updated and rearranged) - I was just thinking that it'd be especially useful to link to iPhoneDevWiki prominently since it's likely for TheiPhoneWiki visitors to also be interested in relatively-organized technical information about development. Changing the name of "Up to Speed" sounds fine to me too - that page didn't get much attention since 2008 until I sort of commandeered it to serve as an "intro to jailbreaking" page. :) It could be renamed "getting started", as in "how to get started on learning about research into iOS devices, especially security research (such as jailbreaks)". [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Also I'd love to see a dedicated section for "Good tasks for new editors", where we could maintain a list of relatively easy/straightforward suggested edits that wouldn't require vast technical knowledge, like updating that links page. Where would that go? Add it as a sub-section of [[The iPhone Wiki:Current events]] and link that section from the homepage or something? Or make a new page? [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

==What is 0x5265c384 in the boot process?==
Does anybody know where <code>0x5265c384</code> points to in the boot process? I haven't been able to find anything on it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 20:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

==License for contributions==
This wiki has never had an official license for contributions. Now, IANAL, but IIRC, this means that you can't use ''anything'' posted here unless it qualifies as fair-use. What I propose is that we set a license and add a notice that states that any contributions after a set date are to be licensed under that license (that's kindof a mouthful). I think we should use the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-by-SA 3.0] as [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Wikipedia uses it]], but that's just me. Any ideas? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 19:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Well, the edit info already says all this:
Please note that all contributions to The iPhone Wiki may be edited, altered, or
removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly,
then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public
domain or similar free resource (see The [[:The iPhone Wiki:Copyrights|iPhone Wiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not'''
'''submit copyrighted work without permission!'''
For me, that's enough. I don't need a 50 page license. But if you want to formalize this more, go ahead. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Sounds good. It's good practice to have an official license, just in case any disputes happen someday, and to ensure that it's OK to copy text over to Wikipedia (for example). [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 21:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Banner Replacement?==
I kinda feel like the banner on the front page is getting a little stale, so I'm interested in seeing it replaced. I tossed a proposal [https://twitter.com/Draxelf/status/408295008794845184 on Twitter] a couple of days ago (which is admittedly plain, but Myriad Set…), but I haven't heard any opinions on replacing the banner. Are there any thoughts on this matter? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Or, [http://imgur.com/wJFqPl1 this]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Looks nice in Myriad! More professional. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 04:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

==Date Format==
I see that [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] started to unify the date formats in this wiki. While I like this to be consistent, actually we should've talked about what format to use before changing it. I like the d_mon_yyyy format though. I also saw that he removed the <code>&nbsp;</code> between the date parts on the [[iFaith]] page that I added once purposefully. The reason was that when making the browser window small (or on the iPhone) that the date wraps to two lines, which is almost always undesired. The question is if we should do that everywhere too? Additionally, as we now seem to have a "standard" here, we should document it, so that new users know what format to use. -- [[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 17:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:I just made it consistent. If you want the <code>&nbsp;</code> back, feel free to add it. I removed it as it did nothing (previewing on OS X). We should use the format I used throughout the wiki and not Dec 23, 2013 etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
::<code>&nbsp;</code> stands for "'''n'''on-'''b'''reaking '''sp'''ace". It is essentially a space, but with a property that prevents word wrap from occurring between the two words it's between. Look at [[Firmware Keys]] on a small enough screen (1024 across should do it). Your browser should preserve the space between the date "words". Now, go into the edit page and remove the <code>&nbsp;</code> from everything in one table. Your browser will now word wrap the date "words". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:What I actually want to do is use <code>{{[[Template:Start date|start date]]}}</code> instead of plain dates in areas where dates are used as a statistic; for example, [[Firmware]], [[Firmware Keys]], [[SHSH]], [[Timeline]], etc. Places where dates are used to record when something happened, for example on [[evasi0n7]], "On 28 December 2013...", should use the date flat out in the source. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Template documentation ==
Whenever using templates that are copied here from Wikipedia, I almost always forget the parameters of the template. I then have to open Wikipedia and search for the template. What I want to do it copy the template documentation from Wikipedia here. To work around the licensing issue, we can create our own template that you would include at the bottom of the copied documentation that says the documentation comes from Wikipedia (because Wikipedia uses [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CC-BY-SA 3.0]] which says our copied text must be under CC-BY-SA 3.0 ''and'' attribute Wikipedia and her editors. I can write the text for license template. Any ideas? Any opposition? If not, I'll begin in a few days. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:I don't see why not. That's what I've seen done on other wikis. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:56, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

== Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List ==

I think the "iPhone Hackers" List of the mainpage needs to be updated. Here are some people that need adding:

*[[Pimskeks]]
*[[User:iH8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]
*[[User:winocm|winocm]]
*SquiffyPwn
*[[i0n1c]]

Are there any others you can think of? — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
:I agree with the list except I do not think that SquiffyPwn has done anything huge, except help with [[p0sixspwn]] and i0n1c shouldn't be added. Just my opinions. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 20:53, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:: [[User:ph0enix|Me]], [[User:5urd|5urd]] and [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]] have definitely earned our keep refer to http://theprivatedevteam.blogspot.com/2012/04/ios-51-semi-untethered-jailbreak.html --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 02:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
:::I disagree, you are not that well know, like pimskeks etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:25, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
::::I agree with iAdam1n. You are not known enough. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 14:52, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::Are you kidding me?? we have worked with many "well known" hackers and are in constant communication with people like p0sixninja! this is a joke we dont have to be "well known" to be influential hackers who not to mention have been running support and hacking in the community for 4 almost 5 years! --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:08, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::Support does not count. I am sticking with my original decision. AFAIK, you released no jailbreaks or found any new exploits, not as well know as the main hackers. Feel free to share what you have found/made if you want and also you can see what others say. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:24, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::::are you kidding me!! http://theprivatedevteam.blogspot.com/2012/04/ios-51-semi-untethered-jailbreak.html that is the reason i have high quality followers like posixninja and nitotv just because you guys are too young in the community to know about our major help to the community doesnt mean we are it is a closed sourced exploit but very functional and based off of redsn0w that implements our exploit now if you wanna get your thumb out of your buts and pay attention it would be great --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 22:17, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::Why is this being brought up again? The answer was no before, and it's going to remain no for the reasons http stated before. I should add that who follows who on Twitter doesn't really mean anything— I have nitoTV, chronic, iH8sn0w, and winocm as followers, but that doesn't mean [https://twitter.com/Dialexio/status/376801384752222208 this] was a legitimate jailbreak by any means. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:05, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::: Jeez idk maybe because we RELEASED A WORKING TOOL AND KEEP BEING BLOWN OFF BY INFERIOR ASS HOLES WHO REFUSE TO ADMIT IT! when you create a tool then challenge it till then we should be put on the list for discovering and implementing a previously unknown userland exploit and building a tool to ease the process... --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 23:22, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::Your insults aren't helping your credibility. Just saying. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:35, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::: well if i wouldn't have to have been asking for so long then i wouldn't be so upset my credibility is there whether you choose to ignore it or not is up to you. our tool is a working tool and we discovered and implemented a exploit that should be grounds for our names to be on the list,and the followers point is that we may not be well known but the people who follow us are legit people. quality over quantity. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 23:49, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::And now, your arguing with the administration. The answer is no. End of. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 09:13, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
:Coming back to this old discussion, the decision at that time was to not even include iH8sn0w there, so I don't see a reason to include much lesser known people. For the overview list, we already have the [[:Category:Hackers]]. The main page is just for the 5-10 currently most important people. Regarding names, there should be a wide consensus of the people listed. If you ask me today, I'd comment like this:
:*i0n1c is not working on public jailbreaks, so don't include
:*geohot has retired from the scene, he could get removed, but as founder of this wiki and best contributor to the scene of all time, better leave him there
:*winocm new shooting star, could get added
:*iH8sn0w could get added with all the tools created
:*all others I would not add or only added to category mentioned above
:Remember that the list should be really short, so adding anyone would most probably mean to remove someone less important. Also, number of followers on Twitter doesn't mean anything; all these people follow me too and I wouldn't claim to be that important. This shouldn't discourage anybody not on this main page to continue his/her work. If this is causing these feelings, I think we should remove the list there entirely. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:28, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
:: Thanks [[User:Http|http]] I feel like in that case their should be a new category made for the people who have worked very bard but by those standards do not fit in that category something like security researchers for the people who are doing a lot of behind the scenes work and certainly deserve some recognition somewhere on here. just a thought though

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T23:49:21Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T23:48:59Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T23:22:22Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T23:21:53Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T22:17:03Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T22:16:35Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

User:Ph0enix

2014-02-15T18:24:43Z

Ph0enix:

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[SochiVail 11D5099e (iPhone_4_CDMA) | iOS 7.1 b5]] (11D5099e)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| [{{yes|Evasi0n7}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User:Ph0enix

2014-02-15T18:24:15Z

Ph0enix:

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T18:08:29Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-15T18:07:26Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

User:Ph0enix

2014-02-08T02:25:52Z

Ph0enix:

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-08T02:23:48Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-08T02:17:35Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

{{Talk Archive}}
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
==iPhone-Elite==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

==Boot-args cleanup==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

==The iPhone Wiki re-design==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
What about just removing the text-shadow element for now? I think pages would be easier to read without it. Here's an example: [[:File:Noshadow.png]]. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah removing the shadow will make everything seem more flat but like [[User:http|http]] I'm still using the classic [http://theiphonewiki.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook MonoBook skin] --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
I would like to be added to the list of hackers for my work with the Private Dev Team and the [[Chronic Dev (team)|Chronic Dev Team]] in addition to my release of the Phoenix Semi-Untethered. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
::No. [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]], a team member found the vulnerability. I am the one who exploited it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])
:::I can back up this "claim". I was a part of it. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Whatever happened to this? --[[User:Phyrrus9|phyrrus9]]
:::::So this went cold and i am going to again request that this change be made. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I'm gonna say no. I don't see any notable accomplishments to merit this. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 21:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::'''No'''. The first step would be to get to the category [[:Category:Hackers|hackers]]. You can get there by finding a vulnerability that is used with an exploit in a jailbreak - or by writing a new exploit. Remember that it's not allowed to add yourself to that category. Instead of finding a vulnerability you could also be member of either The [[iPhone Dev Team]] or [[Chronic Dev]] or [[evad3rs]]. After being in that category, the next step would be that you're famous enough from all those hackers there to get to the main page. The people chosen are discussed here. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

==Orphaned articles==
This is an interesting search: [[Special:LonelyPages]] - "The following pages are not linked from or transcluded into other pages in The iPhone Wiki." I'm not sure where all of those articles should be linked, but figuring that out could be a useful project for somebody. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 05:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

==Easy tasks for new editors==
* Finish converting the remaining error codes listed here [[MobileDevice_Library#Known_Error_Codes]] into the proper mach_return_t codes they should be displayed as. (convert the negative number listed into hex, strip any leading "FF" so it should be in the format "0xe80000" followed by two numbers) --[[User:Dirkg|Dirkg]] ([[User talk:Dirkg|talk]]) 22:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== A1XXX model numbers vs. "GSM"/"CDMA"/"Global"/"Cellular"/etc. ==
I know that this topic was [[The iPhone Wiki:Community portal/2013#iPhone 5|already discussed earlier this year]], but it didn't seem to come to a consensus, and the introduction of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] brought a lot of model numbers. Some of them may "overlap" (think models A1429 and A1442 for the [[iPhone 5]]), but there's simply too many to give names to. There are at least two that can connect to CDMA networks, and all of them can connect to GSM. In addition, with the sheer amount of models, it doesn't seem likely for one model to be treated as a "global" model. Therefore, I changed the iPhone 5c to use model numbers. I would like to do the same to some of the devices that are already present on the wiki though— the same ones from when I first brought up this idea. The GSM/CDMA names work very well for the [[iPad 2]] and [[iPhone 4]]. Things are slightly murkier for the [[iPad 3|iPad (3rd gen.)]], [[iPad 4|iPad (4th gen.)]], [[iPad mini 1G]], and [[iPhone 5]] though; all of those devices' cellular models can connect to GSM networks, so it seems like nonsense to call some of them the "GSM model." The A1XXX model numbers are also how Apple tells the difference between the different models of these devices. Have any opinions changed? Or perhaps someone new might have something to say about this? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 06:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I actually like the idea as it does get complicated now with the new devices coming like said and we would have to do this for all devices. Although, if we did this, we would have to move all the key pages that have keys on to support this. That would not be a big problem as we could limit the moves to say 20 per day. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I suggest we wait a bit until we see what models of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] will exist. But in general, I like the idea of using only the A1nnn numbers. The only issue I see right now is that Apple differentiates between A1532 GSM and A1532 CDMA. If there are real hardware differences between these two, then we're screwed again. That's why I suggest to wait until we know these exact model types. On the disambiguation page I added the GSM/CDMA model differentiation already (as Apple does). If they turn out to be the same, we can remove it again, but I wonder why Apple lists two models (with different bands supported) there now. Someone also added the "CDMA" mark to one of the others, but that's not how Apple marks them, so I suggest to remove that mark there again. If everything can be differentiated by these A-model-numbers, then yes, we should change the old pages too. Including all key pages. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do know there are 2 CDMA and 3-4 GSM for the [[iPhone 5c]] alone. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Ahem… ''All'' of the iPhone 5c models can do GSM communications. Hence one of the reasons why I want to ditch the "GSM"/"Global"/etc. labels in favor of A1XXX model numbers. ;P --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::One thing is, what about iPod touch 5 as that has two model numbers that are the same device, same with iPhone5,2. How would we get around that? I suppose we could like both separated with a forward slash. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, we could just use something like "[[n42ap|iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)]]." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::Yeah I thought that but what about the iPhone 4 GSM and GSM Rev A? They both seem to be A1432. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::This is why I'm against using the A1XXX model numbers instead of the current GSM/Global thing. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::::I had no plans to change the way we refer to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 (Apple does use GSM/CDMA, and for those devices it works fine). If a new iPhone 5S revision comes along, Apple will probably refer to it as a "Rev A" thing, and so will we. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:Referencing Adam's reply above, if we had took that to the key pages, it'd be <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432)]]</code> which would mess ''everything'' up. What could we do? Use <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432 Rev A)]]</code>? No. That doesn't look good. The current way of referring to everything by their supported network type (GSM/CDMA/Global) helps in going to a different page.
:Let's say I'm on [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 GSM)]] and I want to go the CDMA device. What do I do? Go to the URL and replace <code>GSM</code> with <code>CDMA</code>. With the model numbers, I'd have to navigate to [[Firmware]], then find the link, or find out what the model number of the CDMA variant is and replace the model number in the URL with that. 
:Ok, who navigates by the URL and search bar? ''I do''. And I'm sure there's '''many''' people out there that prefer to navigate with the search bar if they know the page name. If we go by model number, the AJAX search results just list pages with a model number in parenthesis. '''How does that help'''? I'd either have to ''know'' the model number of the device I want, or visit ''each one'' until I find the page I need.
:Sorry for the rant, but I am '''strongly''' against this. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do suppose we could just trash the buildtrain all together to shorten it down too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Dropping the Build Train would only ''increase'' the workload. Besides, what's the harm with it? We've been using the same page title structure since forever, and it's worked. "''If it ain't broke, don't fix it''". The current system works, so ''why'', other than the fact that Apple refers to them differently, should we change this? In addition, we don't refer to everything the way Apple does. The [[iPad mini 1G]] is referred to as the "iPad mini". The [[iPad 3]] is refered to as "The New iPad". The [[iPad 4]] is refered to as "iPad with Retina Display"[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/]. Are the key pages titled <code>BrightonMaps 10B329 (The New iPad, Wi-Fi+3G for AT&T and Verizon)</code>? No. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::But the reason we want to not use the variants is because the new devices that are coming out are breaking he structure and also CDMA versions can use GSM in the 5c plus we have like 4 for GSM alone. I only meant drop buildtrain to shorten the urls down. For the iPhone 4 GSM Rev A we would have to list it as <code>iPhone 4 A1432 Rev</code> unless another idea is thought of. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::No. Anything involving moving key pages to change their title I am ''completely'' against. As for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c, we ultimately have to wait. There may be different types, but if they all work with the same firmware, then what do we do then? Use <code>A1456/A1504</code>? I don't want to do that. It can get confusing in the future if that list were to be huge. With ''5'' different models for the iPhone 5c ''alone'', it's just not practical. For the fact that all support GSM, but not all support CDMA, we just do what we've ''been'' doing: "GSM" and "Global". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::There's nothing wrong with changing the titles of pages that don't even exist though. If *all* of the models use the same firmware, just go with "iPhone 5s." If they happen to be partitioned into two different firmwares again, that will certainly complicate things, but it wouldn't be worse than nonsense like "GSM," "GSM [<nowiki />Global]," "CDMA," "CDMA [<nowiki />Global]," or "GSM [<nowiki />Global Plus TD-LTE]." If it's just one oddball, we could just have "iPhone 5s" and "iPhone 5s A1XXX" (whatever the odd one is), and include a link on the former page to say "keys for model A1XXX are on this page." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::I probably didn't phrase that well… I wasn't thinking of how Apple markets the product, but rather more along the lines of how they refer to it in, say, the tech specs page or support documents— the pages that shows the messier side to their simple sugar coating. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::You keep misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I'm proposing. I never said anything about dropping, say, "iPhone 5" so firmware page titles would look like [[Sundance 10A405 (A1428)]]. I want to change the GSM/Global part to the A1XXX number, so it would probably show like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428)]]. (If a hardware revision were made, it would probably look like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428 Rev A)]].) From time to time, I edit URLs to browse the wiki too. But the GSM/Global identifiers don't work that well; again, '''all iPhone 5 models can connect to GSM'''. That's not really helpful. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::I suggest we drop the A and use Rev. As for the idea of changing to A1XXX, I see no issues and am for the idea. I admit it can cause chaos when we move the pages but we could limit the moving per day of course. Overall, I think it will be worth it. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 10:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::No. Don't drop the <code>A</code> from <code>Rev A</code>. Why would you even think to? You want to call them what Apple calls them, and the [[n90bap|revised iPhone 4 GSM]] is referred to with <code>Rev A</code>. In addition, there have been <code>Rev ''B''</code> things before, such as the [[S5L8947]] (A5 Rev B) used in the [[j33iap|revised Apple TV 3G]]. In addition, think of all the redirects we would need to keep for sites that link to key pages directly. I have even seen sites that still link with the URLs as <code>/wiki/index.php?title={Title}</code> instead of the year old change to <code>/wiki/{Title}</code>. The wiki handles that internally for us, but the redirects made in the moves would have to be kept. Currently, only the [[iPhone 5]] and [[iPad 4]] are the only devices referred to by their model numbers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That's why I don't want to change it. It's worked for us, and we have no idea how the new firmwares will be handled. I am betting that there will only be two firmware types - one for the GSM, and one for the Global (GSM+CDMA) model. The only reason they are split, IIRC, is because AT&T uses different LTE bands than rest of the GSM world.
:::Ultimately, the GSM/CDMA/Global monikors haven't caused any ''naming conflicts''. Ok, you don't want to use the ''marketing'' title. What about the way they are referred to on [[Apple Developer Center|ADC]], because that seems to be what you want. I may be misreading what you're saying again, but if we're going to do that, let's use their ''full'' title. Something <code>(iPad [4th generation Model A1458])</code> (iPad 4 Wi-Fi) and <code>(iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for Verizon])</code> (iPad 3 Global). Does the first one tell you if the device is Wi-Fi or a Wi-Fi+3G model? Does the second one tell you ''at all'' that it is an [[iPad 3]], or that it supports GSM? No.
:::Apple has a history of being inconsistent. For example, the iPad 3 Wi-Fi is referred to on ADC (and iTunes) as "iPad Wi-Fi (3rd generation)" while the iPad 3 GSM is referred to as "iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for AT&T]". What happened to the "3rd generation"? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::We could always list as <code>iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)</code> etc instead if that would be better. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::Why is there a need to explicitly keep "Wi-Fi" in a key page's title? All you need is a way to distinguish what model it is from its other variants— the A1XXX model number does just that. It's not like we referred to the AppleTV3,2 as "Apple TV 3G (New Single-Core A5)" or something. And obviously, we can use common sense to address the 3rd generation iPad issue you brought up… Now you're just nitpicking. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 05:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I think we should wait until we see the firmware for iPhone 5c/5s and then decide. TBH, as [[User:5urd|5urd]] said, it is ok as it is but of course if once the new firmware is out it is more confusing, then we can think again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 14:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Come to think of it, we can use a mix of both; we can keep the "Global" moniker, but drop the "GSM" moniker in favor of the A1XXX model number. (The "GSM" moniker is the one that's been bothering me.) I think this works well for the iPad 3 (which is actually split into "CDMA" and "Global—" it probably doesn't need to be done for this), iPad 4, iPad mini 1G, and iPhone 5, but this leaves the question of what to do for the iPhone 5C/5S. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::That would look worse! If we are going to do it, we have to do it for '''''all'''''. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::What is the status on this now? --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::This discussion has stagnated, but I'm firing it up again— I want to fix this before the end of the year, so this can probably be seen as an ultimatum. Now that Apple has pushed a 7.1 beta to developers, we now know how Apple's splitting the new iPhones up— and it's by A1XXX model numbers still. :\ That's probably the path the wiki will go down, but I do have another idea. The other idea I have in mind is using the A1XXX model number for the cellular devices launched last year. But for this year's iPhones, the FCC ID is actually different between the two, so we could actually use that. Before this gets nitpicked on, the last letter can get changed to an "X" to signify that it's a wildcard of sorts. It's not a pretty solution so I do expect it to get shot down (hence why I'm going with the A1XXX model numbers unless everyone says otherwise), but I'm still throwing it out there in case everyone actually likes that. Everyone is welcome to suggest alternatives, but I '''will''' eliminate that GSM label before the year ends. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::That is worse, nobody knows the FCC ID off the top of their head. I would suggest "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" if anything. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Using "iPhone5,1" or "iPhone6,2" is even ''less'' friendly… The FCC ID can be looked up in Settings or the back of a device. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Well that is not the point. I say either use the firmware name or leave it alone. See what others thing though. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I currently plan on using the A1XXX model numbers— the FCC ID proposal was just thrown out there in the off chance that someone might like it. I'm not really a fan of it myself, but the FCC ID is probably the simplest way to figure out if it's an iPhone6,1 or iPhone6,2 since both have multiple A1XXX model numbers. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::I agree to get rid of the "GSM" name, as almost all iPhones support GSM. The Axxxx numbers would be nice, but as some phones have several numbers, like A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530 (what is actually different between them?) we can't use it. For the FCC-ID, we can't use that either, because for example the iPhone 5 with FCC-ID BCG-E2599A stands for the GSM/A1428 and also for the GSM+CDMA/A1429 version. So I suggest to either use the identifier (like iPhone2,1) or better the internal name (like n88ap). That would have the advantage to separate them further, because the iPhone 4 A1332 has two internal versions: iPhone3,1/n90ap and the iPhone3,2/n90bap. The bigger question is where you want to use this. That determines mainly the name. On all the key pages? Then it must be a name that is different between models that use different firmwares. And regarding key pages, maybe we should delete all the key pages from this wiki and move them into some database instead and provide a nice user interface and API around it and integrate that into the wiki somehow. That way we can change all pages with one simple edit. For the name, I prefer the internal name. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::We would have to edit key pages too. They should not be removed however. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I wasn't trying to say that we had to decide on one way to differentiate ''everything''; "GSM" does work fine for, say, the iPhone 4. The proposal I brought up today was using the FCC ID only for this year's (2013's) iPhones— last year's cellular devices would get the A1XXX model numbers (i.e. two different solutions for two different years). But as of right now, I like how using A1XXX model numbers sounds for all of the affected devices, mostly because that's the path Apple's going in their developer portal. Something like "iPhone 5s (Model A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530)" is admittedly a mouthful for this year's iPhones though. At the moment, I'm inquiring about how to label it on [[Firmware]] and such pages, but I'm sure the outcome can be adapted for key page titles as well. As for differences between the models, it seems to be the supported LTE bands. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I still think that unless it is "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" it will be complicated but on the other hand, I kind of like the idea that [[User:Http|http]] had, using the internal identifiers like this "iPhone 5 (n42ap)". The only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of a flood moving the key pages, although this can be done like 15 per day each or something. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::::I'm pretty sure the only key page that exists for an A5 (or newer) device is [[Telluride 9A406 (iPhone 4S)]]. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::::That was an example. I know there are no more A5 pages, only the one you said and two beta for iPhone 4S. I just meant that it would show the design. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals ==
Since this discussion has become extremely lengthy, here are the proposals (to my understanding) for changing the labels, each of which can be subject to changes (i.e. dropping the word "Model" from Proposal A). In an effort to conserve space (ironically, this still adds a significant amount of length), I only included a few models, which should give an idea of the proposal. Basically anything with an A5 or newer is involved. Feel free to edit this list if I missed or totally misinterpreted something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:25, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
# Proposal A (A1XXX numbers)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1456/A1532)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)]]
# Proposal B (A1XXX + FCC ID)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2644A)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2694X)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c BCG‑E2694X)]]
# Proposal C (-AP Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (p101ap)
#* iPad 4 (p102ap)
#* iPad 4 (p103ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n41ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n42ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n48ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n49ap)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 p101ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n42ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n49ap)]]
# Proposal D (iPhoneX,Y Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,4)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,5)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,6)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,2)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,3)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,4)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad3,4)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,2)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,4)]]

:I like this [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (3,4)]] or [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (iPad3,4)]]. I see there are 4 ways to approach this;
1. Change every single device. 
2. Change just devices with different variants, iPad 2+, iPad mini+, iPhone 4, iPhone 5+. 
3. Change A5+ only (which I hate the idea of). 
4. Change nothing at all. 
--[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::My intention for this was to be a ''neutral'' (i.e. opinion-free) spot where all of the proposals were being mentioned, so people could easily see the proposed changes without any bias… v.v --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::TBH, I think it is better as it is, but I just stated my opinion that only A5+ would make in inconsistent. Though you could argue it is already, that is down to Apple and furthermore, just A5+ would still not eliminate iPhone 4 (GSM, GSM Rev A or CDMA). --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:07, November 22, 2013‎ (UTC)}}
:Do it like #4, and do them all. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 18:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::It will be a pain, but I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea as it would make it much much better in the end. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say A and B are impossible due to various numbers in the same model. I like C best. For variant C you could also leave away the "ap" at the end, because every model has that, so it would be even shorter. For D, that's simply longer names and these names are not used at many places, but I could live with that version as well. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Taking into account everyone's thoughts on this, I think we'll probably go with option C. The wiki already uses the "-ap" identifiers for the model pages, and an identifier like "iPad3,4" may confuse someone into thinking it's a model of the [[iPad 3]]. (I would still like to use the A1XXX numbers since Apple does that, but nobody else seems to agree now…) I'll give this a few more days for any last words before acting on it. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::It '''will''' get changed before the year ends. I don't know why your opinion keeps changing, but I have already explained the reason for changing it. You even agreed that it needs to be changed. I'm still open to suggestions on what to change it to though. Keep in mind that the change will affect not only key pages, but also how the devices will be referred to throughout the wiki. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I know it will. I said it is fine to change. I like bot #3 and #4. Only point I must make is that I feel we should change all devices with multiple variants, including iPad Air and iPhone 4. This way, it is consistent and also removes GSM etc altogether. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Adam, if you're going to change some of them then change all of them. This includes iPods. Whatever the outcome, be consistent. As for the outcome itself, I really think we should just use device identifiers (iPhone2,1). That's what we're actually differentiating by, so it only makes sense to refer to devices by them. I don't think there would be any confusion, especially considering we'll keep the name of the device next to it regardless. Barring that, the next best option is ***ap. The other options don't make any sense considering modern devices. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 10:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea, though I do not mind if we do every device or just ones with multiple variants, as long as that included pre A5 (iPhone 4) too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals (cont.) ==
So this entire discussion came up because we need to remove "GSM" from models, because there are many models nowadays where the non-GSM model or Global or whatever model, all support GSM. One suggestion was the FCC number, but I think we already agreed that this is out of discussion (only used within USA and nobody refers to this number). So we have to use either
*The Axxxx number (like A1332 for the iPhone 4). This is how Apple identifies their devices.
*The ap number (like n94ap or just short N94). This is the internal name and used in internal references, like in the [[iBEC]] or [[iBSS]] filenames within an [[IPSW]]. (This is also what iH8sn0w has on his stickers on the devices.)
*The 1,2 number (like iPad1,1 for the iPad 1G). This identifier is used in the [[IPSW]] filenames.
There are several issues with using one over the other:
*Some devices (iPad 1G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5c, iPhone 5s to be exact) have multiple Axxxx numbers for the same ap number/1,2 number. For example the iPad 1G: A1219 (WiFi model) and A1337 (GSM model) both have k48ap / iPad1,1. So only the Axxxx number could be used to replace the "GSM" identifier.
*The iPhone 4 has for A1332 two ap numbers/1,2 numbers: A1332 stands for both n90ap/iPhone3,1 and also for n90bap/iPhone3,2.
*The iPod touch 5G has the same 1,2 number for two ap numbers/Axxxx numbers: iPod5,1 stands for both A1421/n78ap and also for A1509/n78aap.
I understand the point from [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] somehow that we should make it consistent and change it everywhere in the same manner. The question is where to change what. So where do we use these terms?
*The biggest affected change would be the key pages, so any change there should be carefully considered. Currently we use something like: "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". So the discussion here is just about the change in the brackets. For the devices where no different hardware versions exist, I think the current naming is ok. So let's just continue using that. Only where different (sub-)devices exist for the same main model (like for the iPhone 5c) and they require a different firmware file, then we need to specify it. So we need to add something after the "iPhone 5c" to specify the difference. For older devices, we should leave it as it is, because it works very well there. For example the iPad 1G WiFi and GSM require different firmware, but can be differentiated that way. And we can't use the ap number, because both versions use k48ap, respectively iPad1,1. So I think we should leave the old devices as they are. For newer devices, like the iPhone 5c, there are only two variations for the firmware, but six different Axxxx numbers and we don't want to list all of them in the firmware name. We also cannot use "GSM" for the reason mentioned at the introduction. I would prefer to use the ap number there, but that yields to problems. In case of the iPod touch 5G, we have two models (A1421/n78ap and also A1509/n78aap). Fortunately both use the same firmware, so we don't have to specify anything. But if Apple would release an additional model that would require a different firmware, we would have to specify the name even here and we can't add a name like "n78ap+n78aap". The name iPod5,1 there seems to be the obvious choice, as it is contained in the ipsw name already, so it is unlikely that Apple will change that. The only question is the format then. My choice would be to keep it short, something like "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c [5,4])" instead of the current "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". We shouldn't repeat the word "iPhone" there. And we shouldn't remove the "5c" of the original name.
*We also have some hardware lists, for example on the key pages titles where we list under iPad 2: Wi-Fi, GSM, CDMA, Wi-Fi (A). They link directly to our ap-pages, for example the "Wi-Fi (A)" name links to "k93aap". I think we don't need to change this. For the iPhone 5c, we have GSM and Global and they also link to the ap-pages. The link remains there, so we would only change the name. I suggest to use the same short name as in the key page extension, so something like my suggested "[5,4]" for example (instead of "GSM").
*On the [[Models]] page, we have the column "Variant", which also lists "GSM" and "Global" etc. That would also need to change. I suggest to leave it for older devices where "GSM" is a valid differentiation. For newer devices we might list the bands it supports or something else.
*On hardware pages, like [[iPhone]], we also have names and links in the title bar. For devices that have different sub-devices (like the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5/5c/5s) I suggest to rename the title names to the ap-names, as they link to the respective page. I would not change the title "iPhone 3G" to "N82ap" although it links there. So this change would only apply to sub-titles.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 00:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:Include iPhone 4 in the change and use same format everywhere on the wiki. I agree that we do not need to change devices with only one variant such as iPhone 3GS. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree on that. 3GS, 3G and the 1st iPhone are anyway devices where I do not see too many wiki-related changes in the future.--[[User:M2m|M2m]] ([[User talk:M2m|talk]]) 09:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:I don't like how the abbreviated form of "iPad3,4" looks— I understand wanting to keep "iPad 4" in the name, but I can't come up with alternatives besides going with only the identifier. (Another issue is that MediaWiki's markup parser doesn't seem to like square brackets in links— I tried using <code><nowiki><nowiki /></nowiki></code>.) Having thought it over for a few days, I'm more receptive to changing all multi-variant devices (i.e. including the iPhone 4), but my concern about the Recent changes getting flooded with page moves still exists. The page moves should be done on "quiet" days, when the wiki doesn't see much activity. That being said, this is my understanding of the proposed changes. Does everyone agree with the following?
:* On pages like [[iPhone]], the variant labels will be replaced with the identifier, e.g. iPhone3,1/iPhone3,2/iPhone3,3. (An exception will probably need to be made for the iPad1,1. The "Internal Name" row should also be modified because there will be duplicated information.)
:* On [[Models]], the variant labels will be replaced with something else for the iPhone 5 and newer. (I feel like there are too many LTE bands to list in such a spot, but I don't have any better ideas.)
:* On pages such as [[Firmware]] and [[Jailbreak]], labels will be changed to things like "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" and "iPad 4 (iPad3,4)." Single-variant devices like the Apple TV 2G will remain as-is.
:* The key pages will be moved to a different title, to resemble the following.
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (AppleTV3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (Apple TV AppleTV3,1)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad2,4)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 2 iPad2,4)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)]]
:** [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPod touch 5G)]]
:Do let me know if I missed something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with your idea [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]], but make every page use iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) etc. Of course if pages use iPhone 4 (GSM) now, change that to iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) or iPhone 4 (3,1). I would suggest moving 10 pages per day for the iPhone 4 to avoid flooding. I do not want some pages to include the AP identifier and some others iPhone3,1 for example. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Several comments:
*The square brackets were just an idea, nothing agreed on that yet. And yes, let's forget this idea if it has problems with MediaWiki.
*The beginning of the name should remain, otherwise we're getting inconsistent with other pages. I agree with [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] on this. To keep it short, my favorite would be something like "iPhone 4 (3,1)" then. But to make it more clear, "iPhone4 (iPhone3,1)" is also ok to me. If you wanted to leave the first part away and just use "iPhone3,1", then we would have to rename ALL pages (that's also an option).
*Regarding flooding, I prefer that we do all changes at once, at an agreed date/time, done by [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. Maybe in two steps: first step to change the few hardware pages plus one page of each device of the key pages. In the second step the rest. This would ensure that any misunderstandings get catched in the first step, before all pages are renamed. I don't like to have 20 edits per day that I have to go through. Better all at once, but only after agreement of all.
*Yes, we can do iPhone 4 too, if that't the only missing one. It was a misunderstanding on my part for iPad GSM/WiFi, as this doesn't have different firmwares (only on hardware pages needed).
*Regarding the proposed listing of the bands on the [[Models]] page, Variant column, we could only list the bands that are different to make it short.

Can we list here what pages would be affected by the changes? Feel free to edit this list here within my comment. Here's what I have in mind:
*[[Models]]
*[[Apple TV]], [[iPad]], [[iPad mini]], [[iPhone]], [[iPod touch]]
*[[Firmware Keys]]
*[[Firmware]], [[Beta Firmware]]
*[[Jailbreak]]
*[[Application Processor]]
*[[Main Page]] - for Application Processors and Baseband Devices.
*[[:Category:Baseband]] - some pages state models and also the baseband devices, such as [[MDM6600]].
*[[Template:Keys]]
*[[P0sixspwn]]
*[[:Timeline]]
*[[SHSH]]
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (like [[Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 GSM)]]), total 69 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (A) (like [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4372q (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A)]]), total 21 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 CDMA (like [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 CDMA)]]), total 50 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 5 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5c and 5s (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 Wi-Fi)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 GSM (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 GSM)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 CDMA (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 CDMA)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 CDMA (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Cellular (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Cellular (nonexistent)
The key pages would get moved without redirect and all references updated. The references should also be in this list above. Add it to the list if I forgot anything.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 15:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes that is fine. I said the 10 a day to avoid a big flood, but I do not mind either way. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:13, January 1, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::Looks good. I amended the list to include the iPads as well. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::So most of you seem to agree on the the generic change now. But what is missing is the exact naming. We have three variations still in discussion:
:::::#"iPhone 4 (3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 3,1"
:::::#"iPhone 4 iPhone3,1"
:::::I just noticed that we cannot use the round brackets, because this entire part is already enclosed in round brackets - otherwise we would have nested brackets and in grammar I think you have to use square brackets which are not allowed in MediaWiki. So this leaves us with #3 and #4. #3 looks silly without the brackets, so we probably have to use #4 as [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] suggested. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I agree with #4, looks better as I feel that #3 needs some sort of brackets if we used that. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]])
::::::Wow, time really flies when you sleep all day. I've missed a ''lot''. Ok. I'm happy we decided to use the firmware moniker instead of something else. Personally, I don't like #1 because it just looks weird IMO. In addition, #1 and #2 would require the use of brackets (<code>(iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>) which would require the use of <code><nowiki/></code> all over the place, and that will get not only ugly, but annoying. I agree #3 looks weird. However, #4 just looks redundent. I personally would like just <code>iPhone3,1</code>, but if I would have to put my vote on one of those last two, it would be #4. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 08:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::One last comment: We could also just use "iPhone3,1" (leaving the leading "iPhone 4" completely away). That would have two advantages and two disadvantages:
:::::::*+ shorter
:::::::*+ future-proof; if we ever decide to rename the rest as well, this is the way to name it
:::::::*- somehow inconsistent with non-ambiguous other key pages (although ambiguous and non-ambiguous pages are different now anyway)
:::::::*- less easy to understand from the name what device it is (but the iOS version is also not directly visible)
:::::::--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::To me, that makes it worse. Why can we not use the rounded "()" brackets? I mean, it will only be duplicated in the key page urls, in which if it must be, just do "iPhone 4 iPhone3,1". Does not seem too bad to me. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::We ''don't want to'' use parenthesis because then we get double parenthesis (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 (3,1))</code>). We would have to use braces (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>), but MediaWiki chokes when there's braces in a link unless you use <code><nowiki/></code>; and that would mean ''everywhere'' there's a firmware link. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::That ''is'' what I suggested in my reply... As for your first disadvantage, it only applies to the iPads where Apple has gotten confusing. Actually, now that I think of that, option #4 above does look nice. However, I still don't like the redundency of having <code>iPhone</code> in there twice. And as I said before, options #1 and #3 just look weird. So we're stuck at either redundency or looking weird. But then again, it wouldn't be redundent for the non-existent iPad key page links where Apple decided to be annoying with their firmware monikers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Could we not just use the parenthesis but just not in the key page URL's? I mean, "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" but in the urls for key pages, <code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone_4_iPhone3,1)</code>? That seems fine here. The underscores are currently there anyway. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::This seems fine to me… Well, aside from the underscores. Other than that, we're actually already doing the same thing until the changes are implemented. (Key pages say "(iPhone 4 GSM)" while other parts of the wiki say "iPhone 4 (GSM model).") --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::I think that "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" does look the nicest, and I don't really feel like it's redundant. I also like the idea of just saying 'iPhone3,1'. If either of those options doesn't work, it might be good to do something like "iPhone 4; iPhone3,1" or "iPhone 4 | iPhone3,1".--[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 16:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The underscores were stated due to the key page URL's use that. I did not mean use that throughout. Was just to give an example, [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:16, January 2, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::::::::So we have to decide between
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)" (name on link could be "Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [iPhone3,1])" or whatever fits best in the context)
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone3,1)"
::::::::::I would prefer #2 (for advantages/disadvantages see list above), but could also live with the other one. Votes? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would prefer #1 because it would be more consistent. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:14, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Count my vote for #2. I could go either way, but option #2 looks nicer. But just to double-check (yet again), we ''are'' using "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" in places like [[Firmware]]'s headings, right? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::Headings/titles/links: we didn't decide on that, but I think we can put whatever fits best in the context of a page. So that's a 'yes'. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

== Key page template ==
I actually like the idea of a database to an extent. I bet I could put together an extension that creates a [[Special:SpecialPages|special page]] that allows read access to everyone (and r/w access to users). Any edits to the key "pages" wouldn't cause a [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] log. If we ever needed to update the layout, we would just need to update the extension. We could even have an API.
The only limitation is that updates to the extension would require either [[User:geohot|George]] or [[User:Dialexio|Alex]] needing to upload the fix. If we were to set up an external site, then all links to it would need to be wrapped with <code>...</code>.
Maybe a simple extension that takes links and redirects you to the external site? That could work. Like, we would have a link to, say, <code>[[<nowiki/>Special:Keys/iPad1,1/9A405]]</code> which would give an HTTP <code>301 Moved Permanently</code> header to, say, <code><nowiki>http://ioskeys.com/iPad1,1/9A405</nowiki></code>. Granted, someone would have to pay for the domain, but it would solve this problem. I may be able to pay for the domain if I make enough money by the time I finish writing everything. Any opposition? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:I do not like the idea. I like the idea of the database to a degree, but I think that the pages should remain on this wiki. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't see this solving any problem— the backlash against changing the key page template was because of (unnecessary?) changes to the arguments, and the frequency of how often such changes were being proposed/applied. How would a database prevent it? For instance, let's say the database columns are all decided on. Suddenly, it's decided that SHA-1 hashes should be added as well, or perhaps "VFDecryptKey" will be renamed to "FSKey." People submitting keys would still be bothered with having to adjust for those changes. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::That with the database is something I'll implement anyway (if not someone else is faster, as I'm quite busy). I just threw that in here as it might solve the problem of the frequent template updates (which is/was wrong anyway). From there it would be easy to create the VFDecrypt page with an overview link or lists of missing keys and that stuff, so the wiki would not need any direct links. But it would mean that we either completely remove all keys here from the wiki and embrace that solution or have them still duplicate (which then doesn't solve the problem). Dialexio: renaming columns can be handled without interface changes, but that's another topic. So let's forget about this database thing for now and we can discuss again when I have something. We certainly don't want to add extensions for that. So back to the discussion about the renaming: If I understood this correctly, you only want to rename A5+ devices and therefore no key pages would be affected. Is my understanding correct? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::As long as the pages stay on this wiki, I do not mind. Although, a database could be pointless as with only 50 more pages to edit for the new format, there is no planned new format/changes again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::About the renaming, that is correct; I'm only interested in changing the cellular labels on A5/+ devices. (Well, the iPad 2 can remain as-is.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well that would just make things more complicated/inconsistent. We should do all or none. About the template idea, there is also no need as it is not likely we will change the format again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Do we really need to CHANGE THE FORMAT 50 TIMES IN A ROW? The old one before everything was messed with worked fine enough. [[User:Winocm|Winocm]] ([[User talk:Winocm|talk]]) 18:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::It was actually one change, which was completed. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Login prompt revision suggestion==
I wrote a suggestion here: [[MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt]] (since I don't have permission to edit [[MediaWiki:Loginprompt]] directly) - I'd be interested in whether it sounds like a good idea to other people. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

==Homepage suggestions==
Under "Application Development", what about linking to [http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Main_Page iPhoneDevWiki]? It's also a community-edited technical resource, and it links to this wiki. It could be helpful to add a little more detail to "Get [[up to speed]] in the community.", like this: "Get [[up to speed]] in the community - learn about how jailbreaks work." Under "Definitions", it could be helpful to list all the firmware tags in one line or sub-list, similar to how Jailbreak is organized next to Tethered jailbreak and Untethered jailbreak, both to save space and help readers understand the list. --[[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:A link to the iPhoneDevWiki sounds good. I wonder if we should have an "External Links" or "Other Resources" section to include links to other sites (such as the [http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ iPhone Dev Team blog]) though. As for the "Up to Speed" page, I feel like the entire page could be reworked a bit— and perhaps even receive a new, clearer name ([[Introduction]]? [[Preface]]? Or something else?)— the current name makes it sound like it's for people that last paid attention to jailbreaking when the App Store didn't exist. And yeah, moving the IMG3 tags to a sub-list sounds like a really good idea. (Admittedly, I actually don't care for its inclusion in the first place, but that's just a personal preference.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
::There's already [[Useful Links]] with some links to other core community resources (which could be updated and rearranged) - I was just thinking that it'd be especially useful to link to iPhoneDevWiki prominently since it's likely for TheiPhoneWiki visitors to also be interested in relatively-organized technical information about development. Changing the name of "Up to Speed" sounds fine to me too - that page didn't get much attention since 2008 until I sort of commandeered it to serve as an "intro to jailbreaking" page. :) It could be renamed "getting started", as in "how to get started on learning about research into iOS devices, especially security research (such as jailbreaks)". [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Also I'd love to see a dedicated section for "Good tasks for new editors", where we could maintain a list of relatively easy/straightforward suggested edits that wouldn't require vast technical knowledge, like updating that links page. Where would that go? Add it as a sub-section of [[The iPhone Wiki:Current events]] and link that section from the homepage or something? Or make a new page? [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

==What is 0x5265c384 in the boot process?==
Does anybody know where <code>0x5265c384</code> points to in the boot process? I haven't been able to find anything on it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 20:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

==License for contributions==
This wiki has never had an official license for contributions. Now, IANAL, but IIRC, this means that you can't use ''anything'' posted here unless it qualifies as fair-use. What I propose is that we set a license and add a notice that states that any contributions after a set date are to be licensed under that license (that's kindof a mouthful). I think we should use the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-by-SA 3.0] as [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Wikipedia uses it]], but that's just me. Any ideas? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 19:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Well, the edit info already says all this:
Please note that all contributions to The iPhone Wiki may be edited, altered, or
removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly,
then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public
domain or similar free resource (see The [[:The iPhone Wiki:Copyrights|iPhone Wiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not'''
'''submit copyrighted work without permission!'''
For me, that's enough. I don't need a 50 page license. But if you want to formalize this more, go ahead. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Sounds good. It's good practice to have an official license, just in case any disputes happen someday, and to ensure that it's OK to copy text over to Wikipedia (for example). [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 21:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Banner Replacement?==
I kinda feel like the banner on the front page is getting a little stale, so I'm interested in seeing it replaced. I tossed a proposal [https://twitter.com/Draxelf/status/408295008794845184 on Twitter] a couple of days ago (which is admittedly plain, but Myriad Set…), but I haven't heard any opinions on replacing the banner. Are there any thoughts on this matter? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Or, [http://imgur.com/wJFqPl1 this]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Looks nice in Myriad! More professional. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 04:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

==Date Format==
I see that [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] started to unify the date formats in this wiki. While I like this to be consistent, actually we should've talked about what format to use before changing it. I like the d_mon_yyyy format though. I also saw that he removed the <code>&nbsp;</code> between the date parts on the [[iFaith]] page that I added once purposefully. The reason was that when making the browser window small (or on the iPhone) that the date wraps to two lines, which is almost always undesired. The question is if we should do that everywhere too? Additionally, as we now seem to have a "standard" here, we should document it, so that new users know what format to use. -- [[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 17:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:I just made it consistent. If you want the <code>&nbsp;</code> back, feel free to add it. I removed it as it did nothing (previewing on OS X). We should use the format I used throughout the wiki and not Dec 23, 2013 etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
::<code>&nbsp;</code> stands for "'''n'''on-'''b'''reaking '''sp'''ace". It is essentially a space, but with a property that prevents word wrap from occurring between the two words it's between. Look at [[Firmware Keys]] on a small enough screen (1024 across should do it). Your browser should preserve the space between the date "words". Now, go into the edit page and remove the <code>&nbsp;</code> from everything in one table. Your browser will now word wrap the date "words". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:What I actually want to do is use <code>{{[[Template:Start date|start date]]}}</code> instead of plain dates in areas where dates are used as a statistic; for example, [[Firmware]], [[Firmware Keys]], [[SHSH]], [[Timeline]], etc. Places where dates are used to record when something happened, for example on [[evasi0n7]], "On 28 December 2013...", should use the date flat out in the source. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Template documentation ==
Whenever using templates that are copied here from Wikipedia, I almost always forget the parameters of the template. I then have to open Wikipedia and search for the template. What I want to do it copy the template documentation from Wikipedia here. To work around the licensing issue, we can create our own template that you would include at the bottom of the copied documentation that says the documentation comes from Wikipedia (because Wikipedia uses [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CC-BY-SA 3.0]] which says our copied text must be under CC-BY-SA 3.0 ''and'' attribute Wikipedia and her editors. I can write the text for license template. Any ideas? Any opposition? If not, I'll begin in a few days. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:I don't see why not. That's what I've seen done on other wikis. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:56, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

== Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List ==

I think the "iPhone Hackers" List of the mainpage needs to be updated. Here are some people that need adding:

*[[Pimskeks]]
*[[User:iH8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]
*[[User:winocm|winocm]]
*SquiffyPwn
*[[i0n1c]]

Are there any others you can think of? — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
:I agree with the list except I do not think that SquiffyPwn has done anything huge, except help with [[p0sixspwn]] and i0n1c shouldn't be added. Just my opinions. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 20:53, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:: [[User:ph0enix|Me]], [[User:5urd|5urd]] and [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]] have definitely earned our keep --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 02:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-08T02:16:52Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

{{Talk Archive}}
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
==iPhone-Elite==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

==Boot-args cleanup==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

==The iPhone Wiki re-design==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
What about just removing the text-shadow element for now? I think pages would be easier to read without it. Here's an example: [[:File:Noshadow.png]]. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah removing the shadow will make everything seem more flat but like [[User:http|http]] I'm still using the classic [http://theiphonewiki.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook MonoBook skin] --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
I would like to be added to the list of hackers for my work with the Private Dev Team and the [[Chronic Dev (team)|Chronic Dev Team]] in addition to my release of the Phoenix Semi-Untethered. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
::No. [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]], a team member found the vulnerability. I am the one who exploited it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])
:::I can back up this "claim". I was a part of it. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Whatever happened to this? --[[User:Phyrrus9|phyrrus9]]
:::::So this went cold and i am going to again request that this change be made. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I'm gonna say no. I don't see any notable accomplishments to merit this. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 21:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::'''No'''. The first step would be to get to the category [[:Category:Hackers|hackers]]. You can get there by finding a vulnerability that is used with an exploit in a jailbreak - or by writing a new exploit. Remember that it's not allowed to add yourself to that category. Instead of finding a vulnerability you could also be member of either The [[iPhone Dev Team]] or [[Chronic Dev]] or [[evad3rs]]. After being in that category, the next step would be that you're famous enough from all those hackers there to get to the main page. The people chosen are discussed here. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

==Orphaned articles==
This is an interesting search: [[Special:LonelyPages]] - "The following pages are not linked from or transcluded into other pages in The iPhone Wiki." I'm not sure where all of those articles should be linked, but figuring that out could be a useful project for somebody. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 05:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

==Easy tasks for new editors==
* Finish converting the remaining error codes listed here [[MobileDevice_Library#Known_Error_Codes]] into the proper mach_return_t codes they should be displayed as. (convert the negative number listed into hex, strip any leading "FF" so it should be in the format "0xe80000" followed by two numbers) --[[User:Dirkg|Dirkg]] ([[User talk:Dirkg|talk]]) 22:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== A1XXX model numbers vs. "GSM"/"CDMA"/"Global"/"Cellular"/etc. ==
I know that this topic was [[The iPhone Wiki:Community portal/2013#iPhone 5|already discussed earlier this year]], but it didn't seem to come to a consensus, and the introduction of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] brought a lot of model numbers. Some of them may "overlap" (think models A1429 and A1442 for the [[iPhone 5]]), but there's simply too many to give names to. There are at least two that can connect to CDMA networks, and all of them can connect to GSM. In addition, with the sheer amount of models, it doesn't seem likely for one model to be treated as a "global" model. Therefore, I changed the iPhone 5c to use model numbers. I would like to do the same to some of the devices that are already present on the wiki though— the same ones from when I first brought up this idea. The GSM/CDMA names work very well for the [[iPad 2]] and [[iPhone 4]]. Things are slightly murkier for the [[iPad 3|iPad (3rd gen.)]], [[iPad 4|iPad (4th gen.)]], [[iPad mini 1G]], and [[iPhone 5]] though; all of those devices' cellular models can connect to GSM networks, so it seems like nonsense to call some of them the "GSM model." The A1XXX model numbers are also how Apple tells the difference between the different models of these devices. Have any opinions changed? Or perhaps someone new might have something to say about this? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 06:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I actually like the idea as it does get complicated now with the new devices coming like said and we would have to do this for all devices. Although, if we did this, we would have to move all the key pages that have keys on to support this. That would not be a big problem as we could limit the moves to say 20 per day. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I suggest we wait a bit until we see what models of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] will exist. But in general, I like the idea of using only the A1nnn numbers. The only issue I see right now is that Apple differentiates between A1532 GSM and A1532 CDMA. If there are real hardware differences between these two, then we're screwed again. That's why I suggest to wait until we know these exact model types. On the disambiguation page I added the GSM/CDMA model differentiation already (as Apple does). If they turn out to be the same, we can remove it again, but I wonder why Apple lists two models (with different bands supported) there now. Someone also added the "CDMA" mark to one of the others, but that's not how Apple marks them, so I suggest to remove that mark there again. If everything can be differentiated by these A-model-numbers, then yes, we should change the old pages too. Including all key pages. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do know there are 2 CDMA and 3-4 GSM for the [[iPhone 5c]] alone. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Ahem… ''All'' of the iPhone 5c models can do GSM communications. Hence one of the reasons why I want to ditch the "GSM"/"Global"/etc. labels in favor of A1XXX model numbers. ;P --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::One thing is, what about iPod touch 5 as that has two model numbers that are the same device, same with iPhone5,2. How would we get around that? I suppose we could like both separated with a forward slash. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, we could just use something like "[[n42ap|iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)]]." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::Yeah I thought that but what about the iPhone 4 GSM and GSM Rev A? They both seem to be A1432. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::This is why I'm against using the A1XXX model numbers instead of the current GSM/Global thing. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::::I had no plans to change the way we refer to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 (Apple does use GSM/CDMA, and for those devices it works fine). If a new iPhone 5S revision comes along, Apple will probably refer to it as a "Rev A" thing, and so will we. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:Referencing Adam's reply above, if we had took that to the key pages, it'd be <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432)]]</code> which would mess ''everything'' up. What could we do? Use <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432 Rev A)]]</code>? No. That doesn't look good. The current way of referring to everything by their supported network type (GSM/CDMA/Global) helps in going to a different page.
:Let's say I'm on [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 GSM)]] and I want to go the CDMA device. What do I do? Go to the URL and replace <code>GSM</code> with <code>CDMA</code>. With the model numbers, I'd have to navigate to [[Firmware]], then find the link, or find out what the model number of the CDMA variant is and replace the model number in the URL with that. 
:Ok, who navigates by the URL and search bar? ''I do''. And I'm sure there's '''many''' people out there that prefer to navigate with the search bar if they know the page name. If we go by model number, the AJAX search results just list pages with a model number in parenthesis. '''How does that help'''? I'd either have to ''know'' the model number of the device I want, or visit ''each one'' until I find the page I need.
:Sorry for the rant, but I am '''strongly''' against this. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do suppose we could just trash the buildtrain all together to shorten it down too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Dropping the Build Train would only ''increase'' the workload. Besides, what's the harm with it? We've been using the same page title structure since forever, and it's worked. "''If it ain't broke, don't fix it''". The current system works, so ''why'', other than the fact that Apple refers to them differently, should we change this? In addition, we don't refer to everything the way Apple does. The [[iPad mini 1G]] is referred to as the "iPad mini". The [[iPad 3]] is refered to as "The New iPad". The [[iPad 4]] is refered to as "iPad with Retina Display"[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/]. Are the key pages titled <code>BrightonMaps 10B329 (The New iPad, Wi-Fi+3G for AT&T and Verizon)</code>? No. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::But the reason we want to not use the variants is because the new devices that are coming out are breaking he structure and also CDMA versions can use GSM in the 5c plus we have like 4 for GSM alone. I only meant drop buildtrain to shorten the urls down. For the iPhone 4 GSM Rev A we would have to list it as <code>iPhone 4 A1432 Rev</code> unless another idea is thought of. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::No. Anything involving moving key pages to change their title I am ''completely'' against. As for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c, we ultimately have to wait. There may be different types, but if they all work with the same firmware, then what do we do then? Use <code>A1456/A1504</code>? I don't want to do that. It can get confusing in the future if that list were to be huge. With ''5'' different models for the iPhone 5c ''alone'', it's just not practical. For the fact that all support GSM, but not all support CDMA, we just do what we've ''been'' doing: "GSM" and "Global". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::There's nothing wrong with changing the titles of pages that don't even exist though. If *all* of the models use the same firmware, just go with "iPhone 5s." If they happen to be partitioned into two different firmwares again, that will certainly complicate things, but it wouldn't be worse than nonsense like "GSM," "GSM [<nowiki />Global]," "CDMA," "CDMA [<nowiki />Global]," or "GSM [<nowiki />Global Plus TD-LTE]." If it's just one oddball, we could just have "iPhone 5s" and "iPhone 5s A1XXX" (whatever the odd one is), and include a link on the former page to say "keys for model A1XXX are on this page." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::I probably didn't phrase that well… I wasn't thinking of how Apple markets the product, but rather more along the lines of how they refer to it in, say, the tech specs page or support documents— the pages that shows the messier side to their simple sugar coating. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::You keep misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I'm proposing. I never said anything about dropping, say, "iPhone 5" so firmware page titles would look like [[Sundance 10A405 (A1428)]]. I want to change the GSM/Global part to the A1XXX number, so it would probably show like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428)]]. (If a hardware revision were made, it would probably look like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428 Rev A)]].) From time to time, I edit URLs to browse the wiki too. But the GSM/Global identifiers don't work that well; again, '''all iPhone 5 models can connect to GSM'''. That's not really helpful. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::I suggest we drop the A and use Rev. As for the idea of changing to A1XXX, I see no issues and am for the idea. I admit it can cause chaos when we move the pages but we could limit the moving per day of course. Overall, I think it will be worth it. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 10:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::No. Don't drop the <code>A</code> from <code>Rev A</code>. Why would you even think to? You want to call them what Apple calls them, and the [[n90bap|revised iPhone 4 GSM]] is referred to with <code>Rev A</code>. In addition, there have been <code>Rev ''B''</code> things before, such as the [[S5L8947]] (A5 Rev B) used in the [[j33iap|revised Apple TV 3G]]. In addition, think of all the redirects we would need to keep for sites that link to key pages directly. I have even seen sites that still link with the URLs as <code>/wiki/index.php?title={Title}</code> instead of the year old change to <code>/wiki/{Title}</code>. The wiki handles that internally for us, but the redirects made in the moves would have to be kept. Currently, only the [[iPhone 5]] and [[iPad 4]] are the only devices referred to by their model numbers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That's why I don't want to change it. It's worked for us, and we have no idea how the new firmwares will be handled. I am betting that there will only be two firmware types - one for the GSM, and one for the Global (GSM+CDMA) model. The only reason they are split, IIRC, is because AT&T uses different LTE bands than rest of the GSM world.
:::Ultimately, the GSM/CDMA/Global monikors haven't caused any ''naming conflicts''. Ok, you don't want to use the ''marketing'' title. What about the way they are referred to on [[Apple Developer Center|ADC]], because that seems to be what you want. I may be misreading what you're saying again, but if we're going to do that, let's use their ''full'' title. Something <code>(iPad [4th generation Model A1458])</code> (iPad 4 Wi-Fi) and <code>(iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for Verizon])</code> (iPad 3 Global). Does the first one tell you if the device is Wi-Fi or a Wi-Fi+3G model? Does the second one tell you ''at all'' that it is an [[iPad 3]], or that it supports GSM? No.
:::Apple has a history of being inconsistent. For example, the iPad 3 Wi-Fi is referred to on ADC (and iTunes) as "iPad Wi-Fi (3rd generation)" while the iPad 3 GSM is referred to as "iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for AT&T]". What happened to the "3rd generation"? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::We could always list as <code>iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)</code> etc instead if that would be better. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::Why is there a need to explicitly keep "Wi-Fi" in a key page's title? All you need is a way to distinguish what model it is from its other variants— the A1XXX model number does just that. It's not like we referred to the AppleTV3,2 as "Apple TV 3G (New Single-Core A5)" or something. And obviously, we can use common sense to address the 3rd generation iPad issue you brought up… Now you're just nitpicking. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 05:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I think we should wait until we see the firmware for iPhone 5c/5s and then decide. TBH, as [[User:5urd|5urd]] said, it is ok as it is but of course if once the new firmware is out it is more confusing, then we can think again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 14:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Come to think of it, we can use a mix of both; we can keep the "Global" moniker, but drop the "GSM" moniker in favor of the A1XXX model number. (The "GSM" moniker is the one that's been bothering me.) I think this works well for the iPad 3 (which is actually split into "CDMA" and "Global—" it probably doesn't need to be done for this), iPad 4, iPad mini 1G, and iPhone 5, but this leaves the question of what to do for the iPhone 5C/5S. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::That would look worse! If we are going to do it, we have to do it for '''''all'''''. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::What is the status on this now? --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::This discussion has stagnated, but I'm firing it up again— I want to fix this before the end of the year, so this can probably be seen as an ultimatum. Now that Apple has pushed a 7.1 beta to developers, we now know how Apple's splitting the new iPhones up— and it's by A1XXX model numbers still. :\ That's probably the path the wiki will go down, but I do have another idea. The other idea I have in mind is using the A1XXX model number for the cellular devices launched last year. But for this year's iPhones, the FCC ID is actually different between the two, so we could actually use that. Before this gets nitpicked on, the last letter can get changed to an "X" to signify that it's a wildcard of sorts. It's not a pretty solution so I do expect it to get shot down (hence why I'm going with the A1XXX model numbers unless everyone says otherwise), but I'm still throwing it out there in case everyone actually likes that. Everyone is welcome to suggest alternatives, but I '''will''' eliminate that GSM label before the year ends. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::That is worse, nobody knows the FCC ID off the top of their head. I would suggest "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" if anything. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Using "iPhone5,1" or "iPhone6,2" is even ''less'' friendly… The FCC ID can be looked up in Settings or the back of a device. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Well that is not the point. I say either use the firmware name or leave it alone. See what others thing though. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I currently plan on using the A1XXX model numbers— the FCC ID proposal was just thrown out there in the off chance that someone might like it. I'm not really a fan of it myself, but the FCC ID is probably the simplest way to figure out if it's an iPhone6,1 or iPhone6,2 since both have multiple A1XXX model numbers. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::I agree to get rid of the "GSM" name, as almost all iPhones support GSM. The Axxxx numbers would be nice, but as some phones have several numbers, like A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530 (what is actually different between them?) we can't use it. For the FCC-ID, we can't use that either, because for example the iPhone 5 with FCC-ID BCG-E2599A stands for the GSM/A1428 and also for the GSM+CDMA/A1429 version. So I suggest to either use the identifier (like iPhone2,1) or better the internal name (like n88ap). That would have the advantage to separate them further, because the iPhone 4 A1332 has two internal versions: iPhone3,1/n90ap and the iPhone3,2/n90bap. The bigger question is where you want to use this. That determines mainly the name. On all the key pages? Then it must be a name that is different between models that use different firmwares. And regarding key pages, maybe we should delete all the key pages from this wiki and move them into some database instead and provide a nice user interface and API around it and integrate that into the wiki somehow. That way we can change all pages with one simple edit. For the name, I prefer the internal name. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::We would have to edit key pages too. They should not be removed however. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I wasn't trying to say that we had to decide on one way to differentiate ''everything''; "GSM" does work fine for, say, the iPhone 4. The proposal I brought up today was using the FCC ID only for this year's (2013's) iPhones— last year's cellular devices would get the A1XXX model numbers (i.e. two different solutions for two different years). But as of right now, I like how using A1XXX model numbers sounds for all of the affected devices, mostly because that's the path Apple's going in their developer portal. Something like "iPhone 5s (Model A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530)" is admittedly a mouthful for this year's iPhones though. At the moment, I'm inquiring about how to label it on [[Firmware]] and such pages, but I'm sure the outcome can be adapted for key page titles as well. As for differences between the models, it seems to be the supported LTE bands. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I still think that unless it is "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" it will be complicated but on the other hand, I kind of like the idea that [[User:Http|http]] had, using the internal identifiers like this "iPhone 5 (n42ap)". The only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of a flood moving the key pages, although this can be done like 15 per day each or something. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::::I'm pretty sure the only key page that exists for an A5 (or newer) device is [[Telluride 9A406 (iPhone 4S)]]. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::::That was an example. I know there are no more A5 pages, only the one you said and two beta for iPhone 4S. I just meant that it would show the design. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals ==
Since this discussion has become extremely lengthy, here are the proposals (to my understanding) for changing the labels, each of which can be subject to changes (i.e. dropping the word "Model" from Proposal A). In an effort to conserve space (ironically, this still adds a significant amount of length), I only included a few models, which should give an idea of the proposal. Basically anything with an A5 or newer is involved. Feel free to edit this list if I missed or totally misinterpreted something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:25, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
# Proposal A (A1XXX numbers)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1456/A1532)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)]]
# Proposal B (A1XXX + FCC ID)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2644A)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2694X)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c BCG‑E2694X)]]
# Proposal C (-AP Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (p101ap)
#* iPad 4 (p102ap)
#* iPad 4 (p103ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n41ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n42ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n48ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n49ap)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 p101ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n42ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n49ap)]]
# Proposal D (iPhoneX,Y Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,4)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,5)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,6)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,2)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,3)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,4)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad3,4)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,2)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,4)]]

:I like this [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (3,4)]] or [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (iPad3,4)]]. I see there are 4 ways to approach this;
1. Change every single device. 
2. Change just devices with different variants, iPad 2+, iPad mini+, iPhone 4, iPhone 5+. 
3. Change A5+ only (which I hate the idea of). 
4. Change nothing at all. 
--[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::My intention for this was to be a ''neutral'' (i.e. opinion-free) spot where all of the proposals were being mentioned, so people could easily see the proposed changes without any bias… v.v --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::TBH, I think it is better as it is, but I just stated my opinion that only A5+ would make in inconsistent. Though you could argue it is already, that is down to Apple and furthermore, just A5+ would still not eliminate iPhone 4 (GSM, GSM Rev A or CDMA). --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:07, November 22, 2013‎ (UTC)}}
:Do it like #4, and do them all. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 18:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::It will be a pain, but I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea as it would make it much much better in the end. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say A and B are impossible due to various numbers in the same model. I like C best. For variant C you could also leave away the "ap" at the end, because every model has that, so it would be even shorter. For D, that's simply longer names and these names are not used at many places, but I could live with that version as well. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Taking into account everyone's thoughts on this, I think we'll probably go with option C. The wiki already uses the "-ap" identifiers for the model pages, and an identifier like "iPad3,4" may confuse someone into thinking it's a model of the [[iPad 3]]. (I would still like to use the A1XXX numbers since Apple does that, but nobody else seems to agree now…) I'll give this a few more days for any last words before acting on it. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::It '''will''' get changed before the year ends. I don't know why your opinion keeps changing, but I have already explained the reason for changing it. You even agreed that it needs to be changed. I'm still open to suggestions on what to change it to though. Keep in mind that the change will affect not only key pages, but also how the devices will be referred to throughout the wiki. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I know it will. I said it is fine to change. I like bot #3 and #4. Only point I must make is that I feel we should change all devices with multiple variants, including iPad Air and iPhone 4. This way, it is consistent and also removes GSM etc altogether. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Adam, if you're going to change some of them then change all of them. This includes iPods. Whatever the outcome, be consistent. As for the outcome itself, I really think we should just use device identifiers (iPhone2,1). That's what we're actually differentiating by, so it only makes sense to refer to devices by them. I don't think there would be any confusion, especially considering we'll keep the name of the device next to it regardless. Barring that, the next best option is ***ap. The other options don't make any sense considering modern devices. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 10:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea, though I do not mind if we do every device or just ones with multiple variants, as long as that included pre A5 (iPhone 4) too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals (cont.) ==
So this entire discussion came up because we need to remove "GSM" from models, because there are many models nowadays where the non-GSM model or Global or whatever model, all support GSM. One suggestion was the FCC number, but I think we already agreed that this is out of discussion (only used within USA and nobody refers to this number). So we have to use either
*The Axxxx number (like A1332 for the iPhone 4). This is how Apple identifies their devices.
*The ap number (like n94ap or just short N94). This is the internal name and used in internal references, like in the [[iBEC]] or [[iBSS]] filenames within an [[IPSW]]. (This is also what iH8sn0w has on his stickers on the devices.)
*The 1,2 number (like iPad1,1 for the iPad 1G). This identifier is used in the [[IPSW]] filenames.
There are several issues with using one over the other:
*Some devices (iPad 1G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5c, iPhone 5s to be exact) have multiple Axxxx numbers for the same ap number/1,2 number. For example the iPad 1G: A1219 (WiFi model) and A1337 (GSM model) both have k48ap / iPad1,1. So only the Axxxx number could be used to replace the "GSM" identifier.
*The iPhone 4 has for A1332 two ap numbers/1,2 numbers: A1332 stands for both n90ap/iPhone3,1 and also for n90bap/iPhone3,2.
*The iPod touch 5G has the same 1,2 number for two ap numbers/Axxxx numbers: iPod5,1 stands for both A1421/n78ap and also for A1509/n78aap.
I understand the point from [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] somehow that we should make it consistent and change it everywhere in the same manner. The question is where to change what. So where do we use these terms?
*The biggest affected change would be the key pages, so any change there should be carefully considered. Currently we use something like: "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". So the discussion here is just about the change in the brackets. For the devices where no different hardware versions exist, I think the current naming is ok. So let's just continue using that. Only where different (sub-)devices exist for the same main model (like for the iPhone 5c) and they require a different firmware file, then we need to specify it. So we need to add something after the "iPhone 5c" to specify the difference. For older devices, we should leave it as it is, because it works very well there. For example the iPad 1G WiFi and GSM require different firmware, but can be differentiated that way. And we can't use the ap number, because both versions use k48ap, respectively iPad1,1. So I think we should leave the old devices as they are. For newer devices, like the iPhone 5c, there are only two variations for the firmware, but six different Axxxx numbers and we don't want to list all of them in the firmware name. We also cannot use "GSM" for the reason mentioned at the introduction. I would prefer to use the ap number there, but that yields to problems. In case of the iPod touch 5G, we have two models (A1421/n78ap and also A1509/n78aap). Fortunately both use the same firmware, so we don't have to specify anything. But if Apple would release an additional model that would require a different firmware, we would have to specify the name even here and we can't add a name like "n78ap+n78aap". The name iPod5,1 there seems to be the obvious choice, as it is contained in the ipsw name already, so it is unlikely that Apple will change that. The only question is the format then. My choice would be to keep it short, something like "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c [5,4])" instead of the current "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". We shouldn't repeat the word "iPhone" there. And we shouldn't remove the "5c" of the original name.
*We also have some hardware lists, for example on the key pages titles where we list under iPad 2: Wi-Fi, GSM, CDMA, Wi-Fi (A). They link directly to our ap-pages, for example the "Wi-Fi (A)" name links to "k93aap". I think we don't need to change this. For the iPhone 5c, we have GSM and Global and they also link to the ap-pages. The link remains there, so we would only change the name. I suggest to use the same short name as in the key page extension, so something like my suggested "[5,4]" for example (instead of "GSM").
*On the [[Models]] page, we have the column "Variant", which also lists "GSM" and "Global" etc. That would also need to change. I suggest to leave it for older devices where "GSM" is a valid differentiation. For newer devices we might list the bands it supports or something else.
*On hardware pages, like [[iPhone]], we also have names and links in the title bar. For devices that have different sub-devices (like the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5/5c/5s) I suggest to rename the title names to the ap-names, as they link to the respective page. I would not change the title "iPhone 3G" to "N82ap" although it links there. So this change would only apply to sub-titles.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 00:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:Include iPhone 4 in the change and use same format everywhere on the wiki. I agree that we do not need to change devices with only one variant such as iPhone 3GS. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree on that. 3GS, 3G and the 1st iPhone are anyway devices where I do not see too many wiki-related changes in the future.--[[User:M2m|M2m]] ([[User talk:M2m|talk]]) 09:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:I don't like how the abbreviated form of "iPad3,4" looks— I understand wanting to keep "iPad 4" in the name, but I can't come up with alternatives besides going with only the identifier. (Another issue is that MediaWiki's markup parser doesn't seem to like square brackets in links— I tried using <code><nowiki><nowiki /></nowiki></code>.) Having thought it over for a few days, I'm more receptive to changing all multi-variant devices (i.e. including the iPhone 4), but my concern about the Recent changes getting flooded with page moves still exists. The page moves should be done on "quiet" days, when the wiki doesn't see much activity. That being said, this is my understanding of the proposed changes. Does everyone agree with the following?
:* On pages like [[iPhone]], the variant labels will be replaced with the identifier, e.g. iPhone3,1/iPhone3,2/iPhone3,3. (An exception will probably need to be made for the iPad1,1. The "Internal Name" row should also be modified because there will be duplicated information.)
:* On [[Models]], the variant labels will be replaced with something else for the iPhone 5 and newer. (I feel like there are too many LTE bands to list in such a spot, but I don't have any better ideas.)
:* On pages such as [[Firmware]] and [[Jailbreak]], labels will be changed to things like "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" and "iPad 4 (iPad3,4)." Single-variant devices like the Apple TV 2G will remain as-is.
:* The key pages will be moved to a different title, to resemble the following.
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (AppleTV3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (Apple TV AppleTV3,1)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad2,4)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 2 iPad2,4)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)]]
:** [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPod touch 5G)]]
:Do let me know if I missed something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with your idea [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]], but make every page use iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) etc. Of course if pages use iPhone 4 (GSM) now, change that to iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) or iPhone 4 (3,1). I would suggest moving 10 pages per day for the iPhone 4 to avoid flooding. I do not want some pages to include the AP identifier and some others iPhone3,1 for example. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Several comments:
*The square brackets were just an idea, nothing agreed on that yet. And yes, let's forget this idea if it has problems with MediaWiki.
*The beginning of the name should remain, otherwise we're getting inconsistent with other pages. I agree with [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] on this. To keep it short, my favorite would be something like "iPhone 4 (3,1)" then. But to make it more clear, "iPhone4 (iPhone3,1)" is also ok to me. If you wanted to leave the first part away and just use "iPhone3,1", then we would have to rename ALL pages (that's also an option).
*Regarding flooding, I prefer that we do all changes at once, at an agreed date/time, done by [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. Maybe in two steps: first step to change the few hardware pages plus one page of each device of the key pages. In the second step the rest. This would ensure that any misunderstandings get catched in the first step, before all pages are renamed. I don't like to have 20 edits per day that I have to go through. Better all at once, but only after agreement of all.
*Yes, we can do iPhone 4 too, if that't the only missing one. It was a misunderstanding on my part for iPad GSM/WiFi, as this doesn't have different firmwares (only on hardware pages needed).
*Regarding the proposed listing of the bands on the [[Models]] page, Variant column, we could only list the bands that are different to make it short.

Can we list here what pages would be affected by the changes? Feel free to edit this list here within my comment. Here's what I have in mind:
*[[Models]]
*[[Apple TV]], [[iPad]], [[iPad mini]], [[iPhone]], [[iPod touch]]
*[[Firmware Keys]]
*[[Firmware]], [[Beta Firmware]]
*[[Jailbreak]]
*[[Application Processor]]
*[[Main Page]] - for Application Processors and Baseband Devices.
*[[:Category:Baseband]] - some pages state models and also the baseband devices, such as [[MDM6600]].
*[[Template:Keys]]
*[[P0sixspwn]]
*[[:Timeline]]
*[[SHSH]]
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (like [[Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 GSM)]]), total 69 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (A) (like [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4372q (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A)]]), total 21 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 CDMA (like [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 CDMA)]]), total 50 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 5 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5c and 5s (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 Wi-Fi)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 GSM (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 GSM)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 CDMA (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 CDMA)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 CDMA (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Cellular (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Cellular (nonexistent)
The key pages would get moved without redirect and all references updated. The references should also be in this list above. Add it to the list if I forgot anything.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 15:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes that is fine. I said the 10 a day to avoid a big flood, but I do not mind either way. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:13, January 1, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::Looks good. I amended the list to include the iPads as well. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::So most of you seem to agree on the the generic change now. But what is missing is the exact naming. We have three variations still in discussion:
:::::#"iPhone 4 (3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 3,1"
:::::#"iPhone 4 iPhone3,1"
:::::I just noticed that we cannot use the round brackets, because this entire part is already enclosed in round brackets - otherwise we would have nested brackets and in grammar I think you have to use square brackets which are not allowed in MediaWiki. So this leaves us with #3 and #4. #3 looks silly without the brackets, so we probably have to use #4 as [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] suggested. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I agree with #4, looks better as I feel that #3 needs some sort of brackets if we used that. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]])
::::::Wow, time really flies when you sleep all day. I've missed a ''lot''. Ok. I'm happy we decided to use the firmware moniker instead of something else. Personally, I don't like #1 because it just looks weird IMO. In addition, #1 and #2 would require the use of brackets (<code>(iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>) which would require the use of <code><nowiki/></code> all over the place, and that will get not only ugly, but annoying. I agree #3 looks weird. However, #4 just looks redundent. I personally would like just <code>iPhone3,1</code>, but if I would have to put my vote on one of those last two, it would be #4. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 08:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::One last comment: We could also just use "iPhone3,1" (leaving the leading "iPhone 4" completely away). That would have two advantages and two disadvantages:
:::::::*+ shorter
:::::::*+ future-proof; if we ever decide to rename the rest as well, this is the way to name it
:::::::*- somehow inconsistent with non-ambiguous other key pages (although ambiguous and non-ambiguous pages are different now anyway)
:::::::*- less easy to understand from the name what device it is (but the iOS version is also not directly visible)
:::::::--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::To me, that makes it worse. Why can we not use the rounded "()" brackets? I mean, it will only be duplicated in the key page urls, in which if it must be, just do "iPhone 4 iPhone3,1". Does not seem too bad to me. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::We ''don't want to'' use parenthesis because then we get double parenthesis (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 (3,1))</code>). We would have to use braces (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>), but MediaWiki chokes when there's braces in a link unless you use <code><nowiki/></code>; and that would mean ''everywhere'' there's a firmware link. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::That ''is'' what I suggested in my reply... As for your first disadvantage, it only applies to the iPads where Apple has gotten confusing. Actually, now that I think of that, option #4 above does look nice. However, I still don't like the redundency of having <code>iPhone</code> in there twice. And as I said before, options #1 and #3 just look weird. So we're stuck at either redundency or looking weird. But then again, it wouldn't be redundent for the non-existent iPad key page links where Apple decided to be annoying with their firmware monikers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Could we not just use the parenthesis but just not in the key page URL's? I mean, "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" but in the urls for key pages, <code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone_4_iPhone3,1)</code>? That seems fine here. The underscores are currently there anyway. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::This seems fine to me… Well, aside from the underscores. Other than that, we're actually already doing the same thing until the changes are implemented. (Key pages say "(iPhone 4 GSM)" while other parts of the wiki say "iPhone 4 (GSM model).") --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::I think that "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" does look the nicest, and I don't really feel like it's redundant. I also like the idea of just saying 'iPhone3,1'. If either of those options doesn't work, it might be good to do something like "iPhone 4; iPhone3,1" or "iPhone 4 | iPhone3,1".--[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 16:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The underscores were stated due to the key page URL's use that. I did not mean use that throughout. Was just to give an example, [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:16, January 2, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::::::::So we have to decide between
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)" (name on link could be "Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [iPhone3,1])" or whatever fits best in the context)
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone3,1)"
::::::::::I would prefer #2 (for advantages/disadvantages see list above), but could also live with the other one. Votes? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would prefer #1 because it would be more consistent. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:14, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Count my vote for #2. I could go either way, but option #2 looks nicer. But just to double-check (yet again), we ''are'' using "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" in places like [[Firmware]]'s headings, right? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::Headings/titles/links: we didn't decide on that, but I think we can put whatever fits best in the context of a page. So that's a 'yes'. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

== Key page template ==
I actually like the idea of a database to an extent. I bet I could put together an extension that creates a [[Special:SpecialPages|special page]] that allows read access to everyone (and r/w access to users). Any edits to the key "pages" wouldn't cause a [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] log. If we ever needed to update the layout, we would just need to update the extension. We could even have an API.
The only limitation is that updates to the extension would require either [[User:geohot|George]] or [[User:Dialexio|Alex]] needing to upload the fix. If we were to set up an external site, then all links to it would need to be wrapped with <code>...</code>.
Maybe a simple extension that takes links and redirects you to the external site? That could work. Like, we would have a link to, say, <code>[[<nowiki/>Special:Keys/iPad1,1/9A405]]</code> which would give an HTTP <code>301 Moved Permanently</code> header to, say, <code><nowiki>http://ioskeys.com/iPad1,1/9A405</nowiki></code>. Granted, someone would have to pay for the domain, but it would solve this problem. I may be able to pay for the domain if I make enough money by the time I finish writing everything. Any opposition? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:I do not like the idea. I like the idea of the database to a degree, but I think that the pages should remain on this wiki. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't see this solving any problem— the backlash against changing the key page template was because of (unnecessary?) changes to the arguments, and the frequency of how often such changes were being proposed/applied. How would a database prevent it? For instance, let's say the database columns are all decided on. Suddenly, it's decided that SHA-1 hashes should be added as well, or perhaps "VFDecryptKey" will be renamed to "FSKey." People submitting keys would still be bothered with having to adjust for those changes. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::That with the database is something I'll implement anyway (if not someone else is faster, as I'm quite busy). I just threw that in here as it might solve the problem of the frequent template updates (which is/was wrong anyway). From there it would be easy to create the VFDecrypt page with an overview link or lists of missing keys and that stuff, so the wiki would not need any direct links. But it would mean that we either completely remove all keys here from the wiki and embrace that solution or have them still duplicate (which then doesn't solve the problem). Dialexio: renaming columns can be handled without interface changes, but that's another topic. So let's forget about this database thing for now and we can discuss again when I have something. We certainly don't want to add extensions for that. So back to the discussion about the renaming: If I understood this correctly, you only want to rename A5+ devices and therefore no key pages would be affected. Is my understanding correct? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::As long as the pages stay on this wiki, I do not mind. Although, a database could be pointless as with only 50 more pages to edit for the new format, there is no planned new format/changes again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::About the renaming, that is correct; I'm only interested in changing the cellular labels on A5/+ devices. (Well, the iPad 2 can remain as-is.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well that would just make things more complicated/inconsistent. We should do all or none. About the template idea, there is also no need as it is not likely we will change the format again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Do we really need to CHANGE THE FORMAT 50 TIMES IN A ROW? The old one before everything was messed with worked fine enough. [[User:Winocm|Winocm]] ([[User talk:Winocm|talk]]) 18:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::It was actually one change, which was completed. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Login prompt revision suggestion==
I wrote a suggestion here: [[MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt]] (since I don't have permission to edit [[MediaWiki:Loginprompt]] directly) - I'd be interested in whether it sounds like a good idea to other people. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

==Homepage suggestions==
Under "Application Development", what about linking to [http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Main_Page iPhoneDevWiki]? It's also a community-edited technical resource, and it links to this wiki. It could be helpful to add a little more detail to "Get [[up to speed]] in the community.", like this: "Get [[up to speed]] in the community - learn about how jailbreaks work." Under "Definitions", it could be helpful to list all the firmware tags in one line or sub-list, similar to how Jailbreak is organized next to Tethered jailbreak and Untethered jailbreak, both to save space and help readers understand the list. --[[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:A link to the iPhoneDevWiki sounds good. I wonder if we should have an "External Links" or "Other Resources" section to include links to other sites (such as the [http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ iPhone Dev Team blog]) though. As for the "Up to Speed" page, I feel like the entire page could be reworked a bit— and perhaps even receive a new, clearer name ([[Introduction]]? [[Preface]]? Or something else?)— the current name makes it sound like it's for people that last paid attention to jailbreaking when the App Store didn't exist. And yeah, moving the IMG3 tags to a sub-list sounds like a really good idea. (Admittedly, I actually don't care for its inclusion in the first place, but that's just a personal preference.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
::There's already [[Useful Links]] with some links to other core community resources (which could be updated and rearranged) - I was just thinking that it'd be especially useful to link to iPhoneDevWiki prominently since it's likely for TheiPhoneWiki visitors to also be interested in relatively-organized technical information about development. Changing the name of "Up to Speed" sounds fine to me too - that page didn't get much attention since 2008 until I sort of commandeered it to serve as an "intro to jailbreaking" page. :) It could be renamed "getting started", as in "how to get started on learning about research into iOS devices, especially security research (such as jailbreaks)". [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Also I'd love to see a dedicated section for "Good tasks for new editors", where we could maintain a list of relatively easy/straightforward suggested edits that wouldn't require vast technical knowledge, like updating that links page. Where would that go? Add it as a sub-section of [[The iPhone Wiki:Current events]] and link that section from the homepage or something? Or make a new page? [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

==What is 0x5265c384 in the boot process?==
Does anybody know where <code>0x5265c384</code> points to in the boot process? I haven't been able to find anything on it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 20:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

==License for contributions==
This wiki has never had an official license for contributions. Now, IANAL, but IIRC, this means that you can't use ''anything'' posted here unless it qualifies as fair-use. What I propose is that we set a license and add a notice that states that any contributions after a set date are to be licensed under that license (that's kindof a mouthful). I think we should use the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-by-SA 3.0] as [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Wikipedia uses it]], but that's just me. Any ideas? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 19:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Well, the edit info already says all this:
Please note that all contributions to The iPhone Wiki may be edited, altered, or
removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly,
then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public
domain or similar free resource (see The [[:The iPhone Wiki:Copyrights|iPhone Wiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not'''
'''submit copyrighted work without permission!'''
For me, that's enough. I don't need a 50 page license. But if you want to formalize this more, go ahead. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Sounds good. It's good practice to have an official license, just in case any disputes happen someday, and to ensure that it's OK to copy text over to Wikipedia (for example). [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 21:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Banner Replacement?==
I kinda feel like the banner on the front page is getting a little stale, so I'm interested in seeing it replaced. I tossed a proposal [https://twitter.com/Draxelf/status/408295008794845184 on Twitter] a couple of days ago (which is admittedly plain, but Myriad Set…), but I haven't heard any opinions on replacing the banner. Are there any thoughts on this matter? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Or, [http://imgur.com/wJFqPl1 this]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Looks nice in Myriad! More professional. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 04:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

==Date Format==
I see that [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] started to unify the date formats in this wiki. While I like this to be consistent, actually we should've talked about what format to use before changing it. I like the d_mon_yyyy format though. I also saw that he removed the <code>&nbsp;</code> between the date parts on the [[iFaith]] page that I added once purposefully. The reason was that when making the browser window small (or on the iPhone) that the date wraps to two lines, which is almost always undesired. The question is if we should do that everywhere too? Additionally, as we now seem to have a "standard" here, we should document it, so that new users know what format to use. -- [[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 17:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:I just made it consistent. If you want the <code>&nbsp;</code> back, feel free to add it. I removed it as it did nothing (previewing on OS X). We should use the format I used throughout the wiki and not Dec 23, 2013 etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
::<code>&nbsp;</code> stands for "'''n'''on-'''b'''reaking '''sp'''ace". It is essentially a space, but with a property that prevents word wrap from occurring between the two words it's between. Look at [[Firmware Keys]] on a small enough screen (1024 across should do it). Your browser should preserve the space between the date "words". Now, go into the edit page and remove the <code>&nbsp;</code> from everything in one table. Your browser will now word wrap the date "words". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:What I actually want to do is use <code>{{[[Template:Start date|start date]]}}</code> instead of plain dates in areas where dates are used as a statistic; for example, [[Firmware]], [[Firmware Keys]], [[SHSH]], [[Timeline]], etc. Places where dates are used to record when something happened, for example on [[evasi0n7]], "On 28 December 2013...", should use the date flat out in the source. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Template documentation ==
Whenever using templates that are copied here from Wikipedia, I almost always forget the parameters of the template. I then have to open Wikipedia and search for the template. What I want to do it copy the template documentation from Wikipedia here. To work around the licensing issue, we can create our own template that you would include at the bottom of the copied documentation that says the documentation comes from Wikipedia (because Wikipedia uses [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CC-BY-SA 3.0]] which says our copied text must be under CC-BY-SA 3.0 ''and'' attribute Wikipedia and her editors. I can write the text for license template. Any ideas? Any opposition? If not, I'll begin in a few days. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:I don't see why not. That's what I've seen done on other wikis. — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:56, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

== Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List ==

I think the "iPhone Hackers" List of the mainpage needs to be updated. Here are some people that need adding:

*[[Pimskeks]]
*[[User:iH8sn0w|iH8sn0w]]
*[[User:winocm|winocm]]
*SquiffyPwn
*[[i0n1c]]

Are there any others you can think of? — '''[[User:Spydar007|Spydar007]] [[User talk:Spydar007|(Talk)]]''' 16:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
:I agree with the list except I do not think that SquiffyPwn has done anything huge, except help with [[p0sixspwn]] and i0n1c shouldn't be added. Just my opinions. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 20:53, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:: [[User:ph0enix|Me]], [[User:5urd|5urd]] and [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]] have definitely earned our keep --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-02-08T02:16:25Z

Ph0enix: /* Mainpage "iPhone Hackers" List */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-01-13T18:28:53Z

Ph0enix: /* Hacker page */

{{Talk Archive}}
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
==iPhone-Elite==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

==Boot-args cleanup==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

==The iPhone Wiki re-design==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
What about just removing the text-shadow element for now? I think pages would be easier to read without it. Here's an example: [[:File:Noshadow.png]]. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah removing the shadow will make everything seem more flat but like [[User:http|http]] I'm still using the classic [http://theiphonewiki.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook MonoBook skin] --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
I would like to be added to the list of hackers for my work with the Private Dev Team and the [[Chronic Dev (team)|Chronic Dev Team]] in addition to my release of the Phoenix Semi-Untethered. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
::No. [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]], a team member found the vulnerability. I am the one who exploited it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])
:::I can back up this "claim". I was a part of it. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Whatever happened to this? --[[User:Phyrrus9|phyrrus9]]
:::::So this went cold and i am going to again request that this change be made. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

==Orphaned articles==
This is an interesting search: [[Special:LonelyPages]] - "The following pages are not linked from or transcluded into other pages in The iPhone Wiki." I'm not sure where all of those articles should be linked, but figuring that out could be a useful project for somebody. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 05:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

==Easy tasks for new editors==
* Finish converting the remaining error codes listed here [[MobileDevice_Library#Known_Error_Codes]] into the proper mach_return_t codes they should be displayed as. (convert the negative number listed into hex, strip any leading "FF" so it should be in the format "0xe80000" followed by two numbers) --[[User:Dirkg|Dirkg]] ([[User talk:Dirkg|talk]]) 22:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== A1XXX model numbers vs. "GSM"/"CDMA"/"Global"/"Cellular"/etc. ==
I know that this topic was [[The iPhone Wiki:Community portal/2013#iPhone 5|already discussed earlier this year]], but it didn't seem to come to a consensus, and the introduction of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] brought a lot of model numbers. Some of them may "overlap" (think models A1429 and A1442 for the [[iPhone 5]]), but there's simply too many to give names to. There are at least two that can connect to CDMA networks, and all of them can connect to GSM. In addition, with the sheer amount of models, it doesn't seem likely for one model to be treated as a "global" model. Therefore, I changed the iPhone 5c to use model numbers. I would like to do the same to some of the devices that are already present on the wiki though— the same ones from when I first brought up this idea. The GSM/CDMA names work very well for the [[iPad 2]] and [[iPhone 4]]. Things are slightly murkier for the [[iPad 3|iPad (3rd gen.)]], [[iPad 4|iPad (4th gen.)]], [[iPad mini 1G]], and [[iPhone 5]] though; all of those devices' cellular models can connect to GSM networks, so it seems like nonsense to call some of them the "GSM model." The A1XXX model numbers are also how Apple tells the difference between the different models of these devices. Have any opinions changed? Or perhaps someone new might have something to say about this? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 06:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I actually like the idea as it does get complicated now with the new devices coming like said and we would have to do this for all devices. Although, if we did this, we would have to move all the key pages that have keys on to support this. That would not be a big problem as we could limit the moves to say 20 per day. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I suggest we wait a bit until we see what models of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] will exist. But in general, I like the idea of using only the A1nnn numbers. The only issue I see right now is that Apple differentiates between A1532 GSM and A1532 CDMA. If there are real hardware differences between these two, then we're screwed again. That's why I suggest to wait until we know these exact model types. On the disambiguation page I added the GSM/CDMA model differentiation already (as Apple does). If they turn out to be the same, we can remove it again, but I wonder why Apple lists two models (with different bands supported) there now. Someone also added the "CDMA" mark to one of the others, but that's not how Apple marks them, so I suggest to remove that mark there again. If everything can be differentiated by these A-model-numbers, then yes, we should change the old pages too. Including all key pages. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do know there are 2 CDMA and 3-4 GSM for the [[iPhone 5c]] alone. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Ahem… ''All'' of the iPhone 5c models can do GSM communications. Hence one of the reasons why I want to ditch the "GSM"/"Global"/etc. labels in favor of A1XXX model numbers. ;P --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::One thing is, what about iPod touch 5 as that has two model numbers that are the same device, same with iPhone5,2. How would we get around that? I suppose we could like both separated with a forward slash. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, we could just use something like "[[n42ap|iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)]]." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::Yeah I thought that but what about the iPhone 4 GSM and GSM Rev A? They both seem to be A1432. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::This is why I'm against using the A1XXX model numbers instead of the current GSM/Global thing. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::::I had no plans to change the way we refer to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 (Apple does use GSM/CDMA, and for those devices it works fine). If a new iPhone 5S revision comes along, Apple will probably refer to it as a "Rev A" thing, and so will we. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:Referencing Adam's reply above, if we had took that to the key pages, it'd be <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432)]]</code> which would mess ''everything'' up. What could we do? Use <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432 Rev A)]]</code>? No. That doesn't look good. The current way of referring to everything by their supported network type (GSM/CDMA/Global) helps in going to a different page.
:Let's say I'm on [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 GSM)]] and I want to go the CDMA device. What do I do? Go to the URL and replace <code>GSM</code> with <code>CDMA</code>. With the model numbers, I'd have to navigate to [[Firmware]], then find the link, or find out what the model number of the CDMA variant is and replace the model number in the URL with that. 
:Ok, who navigates by the URL and search bar? ''I do''. And I'm sure there's '''many''' people out there that prefer to navigate with the search bar if they know the page name. If we go by model number, the AJAX search results just list pages with a model number in parenthesis. '''How does that help'''? I'd either have to ''know'' the model number of the device I want, or visit ''each one'' until I find the page I need.
:Sorry for the rant, but I am '''strongly''' against this. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do suppose we could just trash the buildtrain all together to shorten it down too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Dropping the Build Train would only ''increase'' the workload. Besides, what's the harm with it? We've been using the same page title structure since forever, and it's worked. "''If it ain't broke, don't fix it''". The current system works, so ''why'', other than the fact that Apple refers to them differently, should we change this? In addition, we don't refer to everything the way Apple does. The [[iPad mini 1G]] is referred to as the "iPad mini". The [[iPad 3]] is refered to as "The New iPad". The [[iPad 4]] is refered to as "iPad with Retina Display"[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/]. Are the key pages titled <code>BrightonMaps 10B329 (The New iPad, Wi-Fi+3G for AT&T and Verizon)</code>? No. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::But the reason we want to not use the variants is because the new devices that are coming out are breaking he structure and also CDMA versions can use GSM in the 5c plus we have like 4 for GSM alone. I only meant drop buildtrain to shorten the urls down. For the iPhone 4 GSM Rev A we would have to list it as <code>iPhone 4 A1432 Rev</code> unless another idea is thought of. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::No. Anything involving moving key pages to change their title I am ''completely'' against. As for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c, we ultimately have to wait. There may be different types, but if they all work with the same firmware, then what do we do then? Use <code>A1456/A1504</code>? I don't want to do that. It can get confusing in the future if that list were to be huge. With ''5'' different models for the iPhone 5c ''alone'', it's just not practical. For the fact that all support GSM, but not all support CDMA, we just do what we've ''been'' doing: "GSM" and "Global". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::There's nothing wrong with changing the titles of pages that don't even exist though. If *all* of the models use the same firmware, just go with "iPhone 5s." If they happen to be partitioned into two different firmwares again, that will certainly complicate things, but it wouldn't be worse than nonsense like "GSM," "GSM [<nowiki />Global]," "CDMA," "CDMA [<nowiki />Global]," or "GSM [<nowiki />Global Plus TD-LTE]." If it's just one oddball, we could just have "iPhone 5s" and "iPhone 5s A1XXX" (whatever the odd one is), and include a link on the former page to say "keys for model A1XXX are on this page." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::I probably didn't phrase that well… I wasn't thinking of how Apple markets the product, but rather more along the lines of how they refer to it in, say, the tech specs page or support documents— the pages that shows the messier side to their simple sugar coating. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::You keep misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I'm proposing. I never said anything about dropping, say, "iPhone 5" so firmware page titles would look like [[Sundance 10A405 (A1428)]]. I want to change the GSM/Global part to the A1XXX number, so it would probably show like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428)]]. (If a hardware revision were made, it would probably look like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428 Rev A)]].) From time to time, I edit URLs to browse the wiki too. But the GSM/Global identifiers don't work that well; again, '''all iPhone 5 models can connect to GSM'''. That's not really helpful. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::I suggest we drop the A and use Rev. As for the idea of changing to A1XXX, I see no issues and am for the idea. I admit it can cause chaos when we move the pages but we could limit the moving per day of course. Overall, I think it will be worth it. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 10:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::No. Don't drop the <code>A</code> from <code>Rev A</code>. Why would you even think to? You want to call them what Apple calls them, and the [[n90bap|revised iPhone 4 GSM]] is referred to with <code>Rev A</code>. In addition, there have been <code>Rev ''B''</code> things before, such as the [[S5L8947]] (A5 Rev B) used in the [[j33iap|revised Apple TV 3G]]. In addition, think of all the redirects we would need to keep for sites that link to key pages directly. I have even seen sites that still link with the URLs as <code>/wiki/index.php?title={Title}</code> instead of the year old change to <code>/wiki/{Title}</code>. The wiki handles that internally for us, but the redirects made in the moves would have to be kept. Currently, only the [[iPhone 5]] and [[iPad 4]] are the only devices referred to by their model numbers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That's why I don't want to change it. It's worked for us, and we have no idea how the new firmwares will be handled. I am betting that there will only be two firmware types - one for the GSM, and one for the Global (GSM+CDMA) model. The only reason they are split, IIRC, is because AT&T uses different LTE bands than rest of the GSM world.
:::Ultimately, the GSM/CDMA/Global monikors haven't caused any ''naming conflicts''. Ok, you don't want to use the ''marketing'' title. What about the way they are referred to on [[Apple Developer Center|ADC]], because that seems to be what you want. I may be misreading what you're saying again, but if we're going to do that, let's use their ''full'' title. Something <code>(iPad [4th generation Model A1458])</code> (iPad 4 Wi-Fi) and <code>(iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for Verizon])</code> (iPad 3 Global). Does the first one tell you if the device is Wi-Fi or a Wi-Fi+3G model? Does the second one tell you ''at all'' that it is an [[iPad 3]], or that it supports GSM? No.
:::Apple has a history of being inconsistent. For example, the iPad 3 Wi-Fi is referred to on ADC (and iTunes) as "iPad Wi-Fi (3rd generation)" while the iPad 3 GSM is referred to as "iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for AT&T]". What happened to the "3rd generation"? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::We could always list as <code>iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)</code> etc instead if that would be better. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::Why is there a need to explicitly keep "Wi-Fi" in a key page's title? All you need is a way to distinguish what model it is from its other variants— the A1XXX model number does just that. It's not like we referred to the AppleTV3,2 as "Apple TV 3G (New Single-Core A5)" or something. And obviously, we can use common sense to address the 3rd generation iPad issue you brought up… Now you're just nitpicking. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 05:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I think we should wait until we see the firmware for iPhone 5c/5s and then decide. TBH, as [[User:5urd|5urd]] said, it is ok as it is but of course if once the new firmware is out it is more confusing, then we can think again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 14:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Come to think of it, we can use a mix of both; we can keep the "Global" moniker, but drop the "GSM" moniker in favor of the A1XXX model number. (The "GSM" moniker is the one that's been bothering me.) I think this works well for the iPad 3 (which is actually split into "CDMA" and "Global—" it probably doesn't need to be done for this), iPad 4, iPad mini 1G, and iPhone 5, but this leaves the question of what to do for the iPhone 5C/5S. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::That would look worse! If we are going to do it, we have to do it for '''''all'''''. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::What is the status on this now? --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::This discussion has stagnated, but I'm firing it up again— I want to fix this before the end of the year, so this can probably be seen as an ultimatum. Now that Apple has pushed a 7.1 beta to developers, we now know how Apple's splitting the new iPhones up— and it's by A1XXX model numbers still. :\ That's probably the path the wiki will go down, but I do have another idea. The other idea I have in mind is using the A1XXX model number for the cellular devices launched last year. But for this year's iPhones, the FCC ID is actually different between the two, so we could actually use that. Before this gets nitpicked on, the last letter can get changed to an "X" to signify that it's a wildcard of sorts. It's not a pretty solution so I do expect it to get shot down (hence why I'm going with the A1XXX model numbers unless everyone says otherwise), but I'm still throwing it out there in case everyone actually likes that. Everyone is welcome to suggest alternatives, but I '''will''' eliminate that GSM label before the year ends. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::That is worse, nobody knows the FCC ID off the top of their head. I would suggest "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" if anything. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Using "iPhone5,1" or "iPhone6,2" is even ''less'' friendly… The FCC ID can be looked up in Settings or the back of a device. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Well that is not the point. I say either use the firmware name or leave it alone. See what others thing though. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I currently plan on using the A1XXX model numbers— the FCC ID proposal was just thrown out there in the off chance that someone might like it. I'm not really a fan of it myself, but the FCC ID is probably the simplest way to figure out if it's an iPhone6,1 or iPhone6,2 since both have multiple A1XXX model numbers. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::I agree to get rid of the "GSM" name, as almost all iPhones support GSM. The Axxxx numbers would be nice, but as some phones have several numbers, like A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530 (what is actually different between them?) we can't use it. For the FCC-ID, we can't use that either, because for example the iPhone 5 with FCC-ID BCG-E2599A stands for the GSM/A1428 and also for the GSM+CDMA/A1429 version. So I suggest to either use the identifier (like iPhone2,1) or better the internal name (like n88ap). That would have the advantage to separate them further, because the iPhone 4 A1332 has two internal versions: iPhone3,1/n90ap and the iPhone3,2/n90bap. The bigger question is where you want to use this. That determines mainly the name. On all the key pages? Then it must be a name that is different between models that use different firmwares. And regarding key pages, maybe we should delete all the key pages from this wiki and move them into some database instead and provide a nice user interface and API around it and integrate that into the wiki somehow. That way we can change all pages with one simple edit. For the name, I prefer the internal name. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::We would have to edit key pages too. They should not be removed however. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I wasn't trying to say that we had to decide on one way to differentiate ''everything''; "GSM" does work fine for, say, the iPhone 4. The proposal I brought up today was using the FCC ID only for this year's (2013's) iPhones— last year's cellular devices would get the A1XXX model numbers (i.e. two different solutions for two different years). But as of right now, I like how using A1XXX model numbers sounds for all of the affected devices, mostly because that's the path Apple's going in their developer portal. Something like "iPhone 5s (Model A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530)" is admittedly a mouthful for this year's iPhones though. At the moment, I'm inquiring about how to label it on [[Firmware]] and such pages, but I'm sure the outcome can be adapted for key page titles as well. As for differences between the models, it seems to be the supported LTE bands. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I still think that unless it is "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" it will be complicated but on the other hand, I kind of like the idea that [[User:Http|http]] had, using the internal identifiers like this "iPhone 5 (n42ap)". The only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of a flood moving the key pages, although this can be done like 15 per day each or something. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::::I'm pretty sure the only key page that exists for an A5 (or newer) device is [[Telluride 9A406 (iPhone 4S)]]. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::::That was an example. I know there are no more A5 pages, only the one you said and two beta for iPhone 4S. I just meant that it would show the design. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals ==
Since this discussion has become extremely lengthy, here are the proposals (to my understanding) for changing the labels, each of which can be subject to changes (i.e. dropping the word "Model" from Proposal A). In an effort to conserve space (ironically, this still adds a significant amount of length), I only included a few models, which should give an idea of the proposal. Basically anything with an A5 or newer is involved. Feel free to edit this list if I missed or totally misinterpreted something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:25, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
# Proposal A (A1XXX numbers)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1456/A1532)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)]]
# Proposal B (A1XXX + FCC ID)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2644A)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2694X)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c BCG‑E2694X)]]
# Proposal C (-AP Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (p101ap)
#* iPad 4 (p102ap)
#* iPad 4 (p103ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n41ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n42ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n48ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n49ap)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 p101ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n42ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n49ap)]]
# Proposal D (iPhoneX,Y Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,4)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,5)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,6)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,2)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,3)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,4)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad3,4)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,2)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,4)]]

:I like this [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (3,4)]] or [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (iPad3,4)]]. I see there are 4 ways to approach this;
1. Change every single device. 
2. Change just devices with different variants, iPad 2+, iPad mini+, iPhone 4, iPhone 5+. 
3. Change A5+ only (which I hate the idea of). 
4. Change nothing at all. 
--[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::My intention for this was to be a ''neutral'' (i.e. opinion-free) spot where all of the proposals were being mentioned, so people could easily see the proposed changes without any bias… v.v --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::TBH, I think it is better as it is, but I just stated my opinion that only A5+ would make in inconsistent. Though you could argue it is already, that is down to Apple and furthermore, just A5+ would still not eliminate iPhone 4 (GSM, GSM Rev A or CDMA). --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:07, November 22, 2013‎ (UTC)}}
:Do it like #4, and do them all. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 18:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::It will be a pain, but I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea as it would make it much much better in the end. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say A and B are impossible due to various numbers in the same model. I like C best. For variant C you could also leave away the "ap" at the end, because every model has that, so it would be even shorter. For D, that's simply longer names and these names are not used at many places, but I could live with that version as well. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Taking into account everyone's thoughts on this, I think we'll probably go with option C. The wiki already uses the "-ap" identifiers for the model pages, and an identifier like "iPad3,4" may confuse someone into thinking it's a model of the [[iPad 3]]. (I would still like to use the A1XXX numbers since Apple does that, but nobody else seems to agree now…) I'll give this a few more days for any last words before acting on it. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::It '''will''' get changed before the year ends. I don't know why your opinion keeps changing, but I have already explained the reason for changing it. You even agreed that it needs to be changed. I'm still open to suggestions on what to change it to though. Keep in mind that the change will affect not only key pages, but also how the devices will be referred to throughout the wiki. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I know it will. I said it is fine to change. I like bot #3 and #4. Only point I must make is that I feel we should change all devices with multiple variants, including iPad Air and iPhone 4. This way, it is consistent and also removes GSM etc altogether. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Adam, if you're going to change some of them then change all of them. This includes iPods. Whatever the outcome, be consistent. As for the outcome itself, I really think we should just use device identifiers (iPhone2,1). That's what we're actually differentiating by, so it only makes sense to refer to devices by them. I don't think there would be any confusion, especially considering we'll keep the name of the device next to it regardless. Barring that, the next best option is ***ap. The other options don't make any sense considering modern devices. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 10:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea, though I do not mind if we do every device or just ones with multiple variants, as long as that included pre A5 (iPhone 4) too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals (cont.) ==
So this entire discussion came up because we need to remove "GSM" from models, because there are many models nowadays where the non-GSM model or Global or whatever model, all support GSM. One suggestion was the FCC number, but I think we already agreed that this is out of discussion (only used within USA and nobody refers to this number). So we have to use either
*The Axxxx number (like A1332 for the iPhone 4). This is how Apple identifies their devices.
*The ap number (like n94ap or just short N94). This is the internal name and used in internal references, like in the [[iBEC]] or [[iBSS]] filenames within an [[IPSW]]. (This is also what iH8sn0w has on his stickers on the devices.)
*The 1,2 number (like iPad1,1 for the iPad 1G). This identifier is used in the [[IPSW]] filenames.
There are several issues with using one over the other:
*Some devices (iPad 1G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5c, iPhone 5s to be exact) have multiple Axxxx numbers for the same ap number/1,2 number. For example the iPad 1G: A1219 (WiFi model) and A1337 (GSM model) both have k48ap / iPad1,1. So only the Axxxx number could be used to replace the "GSM" identifier.
*The iPhone 4 has for A1332 two ap numbers/1,2 numbers: A1332 stands for both n90ap/iPhone3,1 and also for n90bap/iPhone3,2.
*The iPod touch 5G has the same 1,2 number for two ap numbers/Axxxx numbers: iPod5,1 stands for both A1421/n78ap and also for A1509/n78aap.
I understand the point from [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] somehow that we should make it consistent and change it everywhere in the same manner. The question is where to change what. So where do we use these terms?
*The biggest affected change would be the key pages, so any change there should be carefully considered. Currently we use something like: "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". So the discussion here is just about the change in the brackets. For the devices where no different hardware versions exist, I think the current naming is ok. So let's just continue using that. Only where different (sub-)devices exist for the same main model (like for the iPhone 5c) and they require a different firmware file, then we need to specify it. So we need to add something after the "iPhone 5c" to specify the difference. For older devices, we should leave it as it is, because it works very well there. For example the iPad 1G WiFi and GSM require different firmware, but can be differentiated that way. And we can't use the ap number, because both versions use k48ap, respectively iPad1,1. So I think we should leave the old devices as they are. For newer devices, like the iPhone 5c, there are only two variations for the firmware, but six different Axxxx numbers and we don't want to list all of them in the firmware name. We also cannot use "GSM" for the reason mentioned at the introduction. I would prefer to use the ap number there, but that yields to problems. In case of the iPod touch 5G, we have two models (A1421/n78ap and also A1509/n78aap). Fortunately both use the same firmware, so we don't have to specify anything. But if Apple would release an additional model that would require a different firmware, we would have to specify the name even here and we can't add a name like "n78ap+n78aap". The name iPod5,1 there seems to be the obvious choice, as it is contained in the ipsw name already, so it is unlikely that Apple will change that. The only question is the format then. My choice would be to keep it short, something like "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c [5,4])" instead of the current "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". We shouldn't repeat the word "iPhone" there. And we shouldn't remove the "5c" of the original name.
*We also have some hardware lists, for example on the key pages titles where we list under iPad 2: Wi-Fi, GSM, CDMA, Wi-Fi (A). They link directly to our ap-pages, for example the "Wi-Fi (A)" name links to "k93aap". I think we don't need to change this. For the iPhone 5c, we have GSM and Global and they also link to the ap-pages. The link remains there, so we would only change the name. I suggest to use the same short name as in the key page extension, so something like my suggested "[5,4]" for example (instead of "GSM").
*On the [[Models]] page, we have the column "Variant", which also lists "GSM" and "Global" etc. That would also need to change. I suggest to leave it for older devices where "GSM" is a valid differentiation. For newer devices we might list the bands it supports or something else.
*On hardware pages, like [[iPhone]], we also have names and links in the title bar. For devices that have different sub-devices (like the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5/5c/5s) I suggest to rename the title names to the ap-names, as they link to the respective page. I would not change the title "iPhone 3G" to "N82ap" although it links there. So this change would only apply to sub-titles.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 00:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:Include iPhone 4 in the change and use same format everywhere on the wiki. I agree that we do not need to change devices with only one variant such as iPhone 3GS. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree on that. 3GS, 3G and the 1st iPhone are anyway devices where I do not see too many wiki-related changes in the future.--[[User:M2m|M2m]] ([[User talk:M2m|talk]]) 09:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:I don't like how the abbreviated form of "iPad3,4" looks— I understand wanting to keep "iPad 4" in the name, but I can't come up with alternatives besides going with only the identifier. (Another issue is that MediaWiki's markup parser doesn't seem to like square brackets in links— I tried using <code><nowiki><nowiki /></nowiki></code>.) Having thought it over for a few days, I'm more receptive to changing all multi-variant devices (i.e. including the iPhone 4), but my concern about the Recent changes getting flooded with page moves still exists. The page moves should be done on "quiet" days, when the wiki doesn't see much activity. That being said, this is my understanding of the proposed changes. Does everyone agree with the following?
:* On pages like [[iPhone]], the variant labels will be replaced with the identifier, e.g. iPhone3,1/iPhone3,2/iPhone3,3. (An exception will probably need to be made for the iPad1,1. The "Internal Name" row should also be modified because there will be duplicated information.)
:* On [[Models]], the variant labels will be replaced with something else for the iPhone 5 and newer. (I feel like there are too many LTE bands to list in such a spot, but I don't have any better ideas.)
:* On pages such as [[Firmware]] and [[Jailbreak]], labels will be changed to things like "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" and "iPad 4 (iPad3,4)." Single-variant devices like the Apple TV 2G will remain as-is.
:* The key pages will be moved to a different title, to resemble the following.
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (AppleTV3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (Apple TV AppleTV3,1)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad2,4)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 2 iPad2,4)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)]]
:** [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPod touch 5G)]]
:Do let me know if I missed something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with your idea [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]], but make every page use iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) etc. Of course if pages use iPhone 4 (GSM) now, change that to iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) or iPhone 4 (3,1). I would suggest moving 10 pages per day for the iPhone 4 to avoid flooding. I do not want some pages to include the AP identifier and some others iPhone3,1 for example. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Several comments:
*The square brackets were just an idea, nothing agreed on that yet. And yes, let's forget this idea if it has problems with MediaWiki.
*The beginning of the name should remain, otherwise we're getting inconsistent with other pages. I agree with [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] on this. To keep it short, my favorite would be something like "iPhone 4 (3,1)" then. But to make it more clear, "iPhone4 (iPhone3,1)" is also ok to me. If you wanted to leave the first part away and just use "iPhone3,1", then we would have to rename ALL pages (that's also an option).
*Regarding flooding, I prefer that we do all changes at once, at an agreed date/time, done by [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. Maybe in two steps: first step to change the few hardware pages plus one page of each device of the key pages. In the second step the rest. This would ensure that any misunderstandings get catched in the first step, before all pages are renamed. I don't like to have 20 edits per day that I have to go through. Better all at once, but only after agreement of all.
*Yes, we can do iPhone 4 too, if that't the only missing one. It was a misunderstanding on my part for iPad GSM/WiFi, as this doesn't have different firmwares (only on hardware pages needed).
*Regarding the proposed listing of the bands on the [[Models]] page, Variant column, we could only list the bands that are different to make it short.

Can we list here what pages would be affected by the changes? Feel free to edit this list here within my comment. Here's what I have in mind:
*[[Models]]
*[[Apple TV]], [[iPad]], [[iPad mini]], [[iPhone]], [[iPod touch]]
*[[Firmware Keys]]
*[[Firmware]], [[Beta Firmware]]
*[[Jailbreak]]
*[[Application Processor]]
*[[Main Page]] - for Application Processors and Baseband Devices.
*[[:Category:Baseband]] - some pages state models and also the baseband devices, such as [[MDM6600]].
*[[Template:Keys]]
*[[P0sixspwn]]
*[[:Timeline]]
*[[SHSH]]
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (like [[Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 GSM)]]), total 69 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (A) (like [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4372q (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A)]]), total 21 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 CDMA (like [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 CDMA)]]), total 50 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 5 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5c and 5s (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 Wi-Fi)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 GSM (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 GSM)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 CDMA (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 CDMA)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 CDMA (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Cellular (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Cellular (nonexistent)
The key pages would get moved without redirect and all references updated. The references should also be in this list above. Add it to the list if I forgot anything.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 15:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes that is fine. I said the 10 a day to avoid a big flood, but I do not mind either way. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:13, January 1, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::Looks good. I amended the list to include the iPads as well. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::So most of you seem to agree on the the generic change now. But what is missing is the exact naming. We have three variations still in discussion:
:::::#"iPhone 4 (3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 3,1"
:::::#"iPhone 4 iPhone3,1"
:::::I just noticed that we cannot use the round brackets, because this entire part is already enclosed in round brackets - otherwise we would have nested brackets and in grammar I think you have to use square brackets which are not allowed in MediaWiki. So this leaves us with #3 and #4. #3 looks silly without the brackets, so we probably have to use #4 as [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] suggested. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I agree with #4, looks better as I feel that #3 needs some sort of brackets if we used that. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]])
::::::Wow, time really flies when you sleep all day. I've missed a ''lot''. Ok. I'm happy we decided to use the firmware moniker instead of something else. Personally, I don't like #1 because it just looks weird IMO. In addition, #1 and #2 would require the use of brackets (<code>(iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>) which would require the use of <code><nowiki/></code> all over the place, and that will get not only ugly, but annoying. I agree #3 looks weird. However, #4 just looks redundent. I personally would like just <code>iPhone3,1</code>, but if I would have to put my vote on one of those last two, it would be #4. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 08:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::One last comment: We could also just use "iPhone3,1" (leaving the leading "iPhone 4" completely away). That would have two advantages and two disadvantages:
:::::::*+ shorter
:::::::*+ future-proof; if we ever decide to rename the rest as well, this is the way to name it
:::::::*- somehow inconsistent with non-ambiguous other key pages (although ambiguous and non-ambiguous pages are different now anyway)
:::::::*- less easy to understand from the name what device it is (but the iOS version is also not directly visible)
:::::::--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::To me, that makes it worse. Why can we not use the rounded "()" brackets? I mean, it will only be duplicated in the key page urls, in which if it must be, just do "iPhone 4 iPhone3,1". Does not seem too bad to me. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::We ''don't want to'' use parenthesis because then we get double parenthesis (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 (3,1))</code>). We would have to use braces (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>), but MediaWiki chokes when there's braces in a link unless you use <code><nowiki/></code>; and that would mean ''everywhere'' there's a firmware link. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::That ''is'' what I suggested in my reply... As for your first disadvantage, it only applies to the iPads where Apple has gotten confusing. Actually, now that I think of that, option #4 above does look nice. However, I still don't like the redundency of having <code>iPhone</code> in there twice. And as I said before, options #1 and #3 just look weird. So we're stuck at either redundency or looking weird. But then again, it wouldn't be redundent for the non-existent iPad key page links where Apple decided to be annoying with their firmware monikers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Could we not just use the parenthesis but just not in the key page URL's? I mean, "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" but in the urls for key pages, <code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone_4_iPhone3,1)</code>? That seems fine here. The underscores are currently there anyway. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::This seems fine to me… Well, aside from the underscores. Other than that, we're actually already doing the same thing until the changes are implemented. (Key pages say "(iPhone 4 GSM)" while other parts of the wiki say "iPhone 4 (GSM model).") --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::I think that "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" does look the nicest, and I don't really feel like it's redundant. I also like the idea of just saying 'iPhone3,1'. If either of those options doesn't work, it might be good to do something like "iPhone 4; iPhone3,1" or "iPhone 4 | iPhone3,1".--[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 16:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The underscores were stated due to the key page URL's use that. I did not mean use that throughout. Was just to give an example, [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:16, January 2, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::::::::So we have to decide between
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)" (name on link could be "Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [iPhone3,1])" or whatever fits best in the context)
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone3,1)"
::::::::::I would prefer #2 (for advantages/disadvantages see list above), but could also live with the other one. Votes? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would prefer #1 because it would be more consistent. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:14, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Count my vote for #2. I could go either way, but option #2 looks nicer. But just to double-check (yet again), we ''are'' using "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" in places like [[Firmware]]'s headings, right? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::Headings/titles/links: we didn't decide on that, but I think we can put whatever fits best in the context of a page. So that's a 'yes'. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

== Key page template ==
I actually like the idea of a database to an extent. I bet I could put together an extension that creates a [[Special:SpecialPages|special page]] that allows read access to everyone (and r/w access to users). Any edits to the key "pages" wouldn't cause a [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] log. If we ever needed to update the layout, we would just need to update the extension. We could even have an API.
The only limitation is that updates to the extension would require either [[User:geohot|George]] or [[User:Dialexio|Alex]] needing to upload the fix. If we were to set up an external site, then all links to it would need to be wrapped with <code>...</code>.
Maybe a simple extension that takes links and redirects you to the external site? That could work. Like, we would have a link to, say, <code>[[<nowiki/>Special:Keys/iPad1,1/9A405]]</code> which would give an HTTP <code>301 Moved Permanently</code> header to, say, <code><nowiki>http://ioskeys.com/iPad1,1/9A405</nowiki></code>. Granted, someone would have to pay for the domain, but it would solve this problem. I may be able to pay for the domain if I make enough money by the time I finish writing everything. Any opposition? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:I do not like the idea. I like the idea of the database to a degree, but I think that the pages should remain on this wiki. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't see this solving any problem— the backlash against changing the key page template was because of (unnecessary?) changes to the arguments, and the frequency of how often such changes were being proposed/applied. How would a database prevent it? For instance, let's say the database columns are all decided on. Suddenly, it's decided that SHA-1 hashes should be added as well, or perhaps "VFDecryptKey" will be renamed to "FSKey." People submitting keys would still be bothered with having to adjust for those changes. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::That with the database is something I'll implement anyway (if not someone else is faster, as I'm quite busy). I just threw that in here as it might solve the problem of the frequent template updates (which is/was wrong anyway). From there it would be easy to create the VFDecrypt page with an overview link or lists of missing keys and that stuff, so the wiki would not need any direct links. But it would mean that we either completely remove all keys here from the wiki and embrace that solution or have them still duplicate (which then doesn't solve the problem). Dialexio: renaming columns can be handled without interface changes, but that's another topic. So let's forget about this database thing for now and we can discuss again when I have something. We certainly don't want to add extensions for that. So back to the discussion about the renaming: If I understood this correctly, you only want to rename A5+ devices and therefore no key pages would be affected. Is my understanding correct? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::As long as the pages stay on this wiki, I do not mind. Although, a database could be pointless as with only 50 more pages to edit for the new format, there is no planned new format/changes again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::About the renaming, that is correct; I'm only interested in changing the cellular labels on A5/+ devices. (Well, the iPad 2 can remain as-is.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well that would just make things more complicated/inconsistent. We should do all or none. About the template idea, there is also no need as it is not likely we will change the format again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Do we really need to CHANGE THE FORMAT 50 TIMES IN A ROW? The old one before everything was messed with worked fine enough. [[User:Winocm|Winocm]] ([[User talk:Winocm|talk]]) 18:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::It was actually one change, which was completed. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Login prompt revision suggestion==
I wrote a suggestion here: [[MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt]] (since I don't have permission to edit [[MediaWiki:Loginprompt]] directly) - I'd be interested in whether it sounds like a good idea to other people. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

==Homepage suggestions==
Under "Application Development", what about linking to [http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Main_Page iPhoneDevWiki]? It's also a community-edited technical resource, and it links to this wiki. It could be helpful to add a little more detail to "Get [[up to speed]] in the community.", like this: "Get [[up to speed]] in the community - learn about how jailbreaks work." Under "Definitions", it could be helpful to list all the firmware tags in one line or sub-list, similar to how Jailbreak is organized next to Tethered jailbreak and Untethered jailbreak, both to save space and help readers understand the list. --[[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:A link to the iPhoneDevWiki sounds good. I wonder if we should have an "External Links" or "Other Resources" section to include links to other sites (such as the [http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ iPhone Dev Team blog]) though. As for the "Up to Speed" page, I feel like the entire page could be reworked a bit— and perhaps even receive a new, clearer name ([[Introduction]]? [[Preface]]? Or something else?)— the current name makes it sound like it's for people that last paid attention to jailbreaking when the App Store didn't exist. And yeah, moving the IMG3 tags to a sub-list sounds like a really good idea. (Admittedly, I actually don't care for its inclusion in the first place, but that's just a personal preference.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
::There's already [[Useful Links]] with some links to other core community resources (which could be updated and rearranged) - I was just thinking that it'd be especially useful to link to iPhoneDevWiki prominently since it's likely for TheiPhoneWiki visitors to also be interested in relatively-organized technical information about development. Changing the name of "Up to Speed" sounds fine to me too - that page didn't get much attention since 2008 until I sort of commandeered it to serve as an "intro to jailbreaking" page. :) It could be renamed "getting started", as in "how to get started on learning about research into iOS devices, especially security research (such as jailbreaks)". [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Also I'd love to see a dedicated section for "Good tasks for new editors", where we could maintain a list of relatively easy/straightforward suggested edits that wouldn't require vast technical knowledge, like updating that links page. Where would that go? Add it as a sub-section of [[The iPhone Wiki:Current events]] and link that section from the homepage or something? Or make a new page? [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

==What is 0x5265c384 in the boot process?==
Does anybody know where <code>0x5265c384</code> points to in the boot process? I haven't been able to find anything on it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 20:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

==License for contributions==
This wiki has never had an official license for contributions. Now, IANAL, but IIRC, this means that you can't use ''anything'' posted here unless it qualifies as fair-use. What I propose is that we set a license and add a notice that states that any contributions after a set date are to be licensed under that license (that's kindof a mouthful). I think we should use the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-by-SA 3.0] as [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Wikipedia uses it]], but that's just me. Any ideas? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 19:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Well, the edit info already says all this:
Please note that all contributions to The iPhone Wiki may be edited, altered, or
removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly,
then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public
domain or similar free resource (see The [[:The iPhone Wiki:Copyrights|iPhone Wiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not'''
'''submit copyrighted work without permission!'''
For me, that's enough. I don't need a 50 page license. But if you want to formalize this more, go ahead. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Sounds good. It's good practice to have an official license, just in case any disputes happen someday, and to ensure that it's OK to copy text over to Wikipedia (for example). [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 21:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Future plans==
Now that I have SSH access, I've begun working on making several, somewhat-overdue changes to the wiki. The Renameuser extension was reinstated, so admins can now rename accounts. If you have another account, that can also get merged into your current account. If you happen to get locked out from both your account and the email used is no longer active, I can run a script to reset your password. I've also begun implementing a very noticeable change— as users of the Vector skin have noticed, the iOS 6-based theming is gone. It's a semi-temporary move though; it's going into its own skin, because… you know, choice is cool. People who like the Vector skin may not have liked the iOS theming, especially since IE 9 and lower didn't display it completely accurately. Therefore, it's going into its own theme. Once that's done I also plan on making a separate iOS 7-based skin. If there are any further thoughts or suggestions on how to improve the wiki, do let me know! --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Banner Replacement?==
I kinda feel like the banner on the front page is getting a little stale, so I'm interested in seeing it replaced. I tossed a proposal [https://twitter.com/Draxelf/status/408295008794845184 on Twitter] a couple of days ago (which is admittedly plain, but Myriad Set…), but I haven't heard any opinions on replacing the banner. Are there any thoughts on this matter? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Or, [http://imgur.com/wJFqPl1 this]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Looks nice in Myriad! More professional. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 04:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

==Date Format==
I see that [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] started to unify the date formats in this wiki. While I like this to be consistent, actually we should've talked about what format to use before changing it. I like the d_mon_yyyy format though. I also saw that he removed the <code>&nbsp;</code> between the date parts on the [[iFaith]] page that I added once purposefully. The reason was that when making the browser window small (or on the iPhone) that the date wraps to two lines, which is almost always undesired. The question is if we should do that everywhere too? Additionally, as we now seem to have a "standard" here, we should document it, so that new users know what format to use. -- [[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 17:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:I just made it consistent. If you want the <code>&nbsp;</code> back, feel free to add it. I removed it as it did nothing (previewing on OS X). We should use the format I used throughout the wiki and not Dec 23, 2013 etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
::<code>&nbsp;</code> stands for "'''n'''on-'''b'''reaking '''sp'''ace". It is essentially a space, but with a property that prevents word wrap from occurring between the two words it's between. Look at [[Firmware Keys]] on a small enough screen (1024 across should do it). Your browser should preserve the space between the date "words". Now, go into the edit page and remove the <code>&nbsp;</code> from everything in one table. Your browser will now word wrap the date "words". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:What I actually want to do is use <code>{{[[Template:Start date|start date]]}}</code> instead of plain dates in areas where dates are used as a statistic; for example, [[Firmware]], [[Firmware Keys]], [[SHSH]], [[Timeline]], etc. Places where dates are used to record when something happened, for example on [[evasi0n7]], "On 28 December 2013...", should use the date flat out in the source. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Template documentation ==
Whenever using templates that are copied here from Wikipedia, I almost always forget the parameters of the template. I then have to open Wikipedia and search for the template. What I want to do it copy the template documentation from Wikipedia here. To work around the licensing issue, we can create our own template that you would include at the bottom of the copied documentation that says the documentation comes from Wikipedia (because Wikipedia uses [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CC-BY-SA 3.0]] which says our copied text must be under CC-BY-SA 3.0 ''and'' attribute Wikipedia and her editors. I can write the text for license template. Any ideas? Any opposition? If not, I'll begin in a few days. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2014-01-13T18:28:20Z

Ph0enix: /* Hacker page */

{{Talk Archive}}
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
==iPhone-Elite==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

==Boot-args cleanup==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

==The iPhone Wiki re-design==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
What about just removing the text-shadow element for now? I think pages would be easier to read without it. Here's an example: [[:File:Noshadow.png]]. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
:Yeah removing the shadow will make everything seem more flat but like [[User:http|http]] I'm still using the classic [http://theiphonewiki.com/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=monobook MonoBook skin] --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
I would like to be added to the list of hackers for my work with the Private Dev Team and the [[Chronic Dev (team)|Chronic Dev Team]] in addition to my release of the Phoenix Semi-Untethered. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
::No. [[User:phyrrus9|phyrrus9]], a team member found the vulnerability. I am the one who exploited it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])
:::I can back up this "claim". I was a part of it. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
::::Whatever happened to this? --[[User:Phyrrus9|phyrrus9]]
:::::So this went cold and i am going to again request that this change be made.

==Orphaned articles==
This is an interesting search: [[Special:LonelyPages]] - "The following pages are not linked from or transcluded into other pages in The iPhone Wiki." I'm not sure where all of those articles should be linked, but figuring that out could be a useful project for somebody. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 05:57, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

==Easy tasks for new editors==
* Finish converting the remaining error codes listed here [[MobileDevice_Library#Known_Error_Codes]] into the proper mach_return_t codes they should be displayed as. (convert the negative number listed into hex, strip any leading "FF" so it should be in the format "0xe80000" followed by two numbers) --[[User:Dirkg|Dirkg]] ([[User talk:Dirkg|talk]]) 22:40, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

== A1XXX model numbers vs. "GSM"/"CDMA"/"Global"/"Cellular"/etc. ==
I know that this topic was [[The iPhone Wiki:Community portal/2013#iPhone 5|already discussed earlier this year]], but it didn't seem to come to a consensus, and the introduction of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] brought a lot of model numbers. Some of them may "overlap" (think models A1429 and A1442 for the [[iPhone 5]]), but there's simply too many to give names to. There are at least two that can connect to CDMA networks, and all of them can connect to GSM. In addition, with the sheer amount of models, it doesn't seem likely for one model to be treated as a "global" model. Therefore, I changed the iPhone 5c to use model numbers. I would like to do the same to some of the devices that are already present on the wiki though— the same ones from when I first brought up this idea. The GSM/CDMA names work very well for the [[iPad 2]] and [[iPhone 4]]. Things are slightly murkier for the [[iPad 3|iPad (3rd gen.)]], [[iPad 4|iPad (4th gen.)]], [[iPad mini 1G]], and [[iPhone 5]] though; all of those devices' cellular models can connect to GSM networks, so it seems like nonsense to call some of them the "GSM model." The A1XXX model numbers are also how Apple tells the difference between the different models of these devices. Have any opinions changed? Or perhaps someone new might have something to say about this? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 06:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I actually like the idea as it does get complicated now with the new devices coming like said and we would have to do this for all devices. Although, if we did this, we would have to move all the key pages that have keys on to support this. That would not be a big problem as we could limit the moves to say 20 per day. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:47, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:I suggest we wait a bit until we see what models of the [[iPhone 5c]] and [[iPhone 5s]] will exist. But in general, I like the idea of using only the A1nnn numbers. The only issue I see right now is that Apple differentiates between A1532 GSM and A1532 CDMA. If there are real hardware differences between these two, then we're screwed again. That's why I suggest to wait until we know these exact model types. On the disambiguation page I added the GSM/CDMA model differentiation already (as Apple does). If they turn out to be the same, we can remove it again, but I wonder why Apple lists two models (with different bands supported) there now. Someone also added the "CDMA" mark to one of the others, but that's not how Apple marks them, so I suggest to remove that mark there again. If everything can be differentiated by these A-model-numbers, then yes, we should change the old pages too. Including all key pages. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:44, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do know there are 2 CDMA and 3-4 GSM for the [[iPhone 5c]] alone. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Ahem… ''All'' of the iPhone 5c models can do GSM communications. Hence one of the reasons why I want to ditch the "GSM"/"Global"/etc. labels in favor of A1XXX model numbers. ;P --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:07, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::One thing is, what about iPod touch 5 as that has two model numbers that are the same device, same with iPhone5,2. How would we get around that? I suppose we could like both separated with a forward slash. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, we could just use something like "[[n42ap|iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)]]." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:45, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::Yeah I thought that but what about the iPhone 4 GSM and GSM Rev A? They both seem to be A1432. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::This is why I'm against using the A1XXX model numbers instead of the current GSM/Global thing. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::::I had no plans to change the way we refer to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2 (Apple does use GSM/CDMA, and for those devices it works fine). If a new iPhone 5S revision comes along, Apple will probably refer to it as a "Rev A" thing, and so will we. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:Referencing Adam's reply above, if we had took that to the key pages, it'd be <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432)]]</code> which would mess ''everything'' up. What could we do? Use <code>[<nowiki/>[{BuildTrain} {Build} (A1432 Rev A)]]</code>? No. That doesn't look good. The current way of referring to everything by their supported network type (GSM/CDMA/Global) helps in going to a different page.
:Let's say I'm on [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 GSM)]] and I want to go the CDMA device. What do I do? Go to the URL and replace <code>GSM</code> with <code>CDMA</code>. With the model numbers, I'd have to navigate to [[Firmware]], then find the link, or find out what the model number of the CDMA variant is and replace the model number in the URL with that. 
:Ok, who navigates by the URL and search bar? ''I do''. And I'm sure there's '''many''' people out there that prefer to navigate with the search bar if they know the page name. If we go by model number, the AJAX search results just list pages with a model number in parenthesis. '''How does that help'''? I'd either have to ''know'' the model number of the device I want, or visit ''each one'' until I find the page I need.
:Sorry for the rant, but I am '''strongly''' against this. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 23:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

::I do suppose we could just trash the buildtrain all together to shorten it down too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

:::Dropping the Build Train would only ''increase'' the workload. Besides, what's the harm with it? We've been using the same page title structure since forever, and it's worked. "''If it ain't broke, don't fix it''". The current system works, so ''why'', other than the fact that Apple refers to them differently, should we change this? In addition, we don't refer to everything the way Apple does. The [[iPad mini 1G]] is referred to as the "iPad mini". The [[iPad 3]] is refered to as "The New iPad". The [[iPad 4]] is refered to as "iPad with Retina Display"[http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/]. Are the key pages titled <code>BrightonMaps 10B329 (The New iPad, Wi-Fi+3G for AT&T and Verizon)</code>? No. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:37, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::But the reason we want to not use the variants is because the new devices that are coming out are breaking he structure and also CDMA versions can use GSM in the 5c plus we have like 4 for GSM alone. I only meant drop buildtrain to shorten the urls down. For the iPhone 4 GSM Rev A we would have to list it as <code>iPhone 4 A1432 Rev</code> unless another idea is thought of. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:55, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::No. Anything involving moving key pages to change their title I am ''completely'' against. As for the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c, we ultimately have to wait. There may be different types, but if they all work with the same firmware, then what do we do then? Use <code>A1456/A1504</code>? I don't want to do that. It can get confusing in the future if that list were to be huge. With ''5'' different models for the iPhone 5c ''alone'', it's just not practical. For the fact that all support GSM, but not all support CDMA, we just do what we've ''been'' doing: "GSM" and "Global". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::There's nothing wrong with changing the titles of pages that don't even exist though. If *all* of the models use the same firmware, just go with "iPhone 5s." If they happen to be partitioned into two different firmwares again, that will certainly complicate things, but it wouldn't be worse than nonsense like "GSM," "GSM [<nowiki />Global]," "CDMA," "CDMA [<nowiki />Global]," or "GSM [<nowiki />Global Plus TD-LTE]." If it's just one oddball, we could just have "iPhone 5s" and "iPhone 5s A1XXX" (whatever the odd one is), and include a link on the former page to say "keys for model A1XXX are on this page." --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::I probably didn't phrase that well… I wasn't thinking of how Apple markets the product, but rather more along the lines of how they refer to it in, say, the tech specs page or support documents— the pages that shows the messier side to their simple sugar coating. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::You keep misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I'm proposing. I never said anything about dropping, say, "iPhone 5" so firmware page titles would look like [[Sundance 10A405 (A1428)]]. I want to change the GSM/Global part to the A1XXX number, so it would probably show like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428)]]. (If a hardware revision were made, it would probably look like [[Sundance 10A405 (iPhone 5 A1428 Rev A)]].) From time to time, I edit URLs to browse the wiki too. But the GSM/Global identifiers don't work that well; again, '''all iPhone 5 models can connect to GSM'''. That's not really helpful. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 02:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::I suggest we drop the A and use Rev. As for the idea of changing to A1XXX, I see no issues and am for the idea. I admit it can cause chaos when we move the pages but we could limit the moving per day of course. Overall, I think it will be worth it. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 10:01, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::No. Don't drop the <code>A</code> from <code>Rev A</code>. Why would you even think to? You want to call them what Apple calls them, and the [[n90bap|revised iPhone 4 GSM]] is referred to with <code>Rev A</code>. In addition, there have been <code>Rev ''B''</code> things before, such as the [[S5L8947]] (A5 Rev B) used in the [[j33iap|revised Apple TV 3G]]. In addition, think of all the redirects we would need to keep for sites that link to key pages directly. I have even seen sites that still link with the URLs as <code>/wiki/index.php?title={Title}</code> instead of the year old change to <code>/wiki/{Title}</code>. The wiki handles that internally for us, but the redirects made in the moves would have to be kept. Currently, only the [[iPhone 5]] and [[iPad 4]] are the only devices referred to by their model numbers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

:::That's why I don't want to change it. It's worked for us, and we have no idea how the new firmwares will be handled. I am betting that there will only be two firmware types - one for the GSM, and one for the Global (GSM+CDMA) model. The only reason they are split, IIRC, is because AT&T uses different LTE bands than rest of the GSM world.
:::Ultimately, the GSM/CDMA/Global monikors haven't caused any ''naming conflicts''. Ok, you don't want to use the ''marketing'' title. What about the way they are referred to on [[Apple Developer Center|ADC]], because that seems to be what you want. I may be misreading what you're saying again, but if we're going to do that, let's use their ''full'' title. Something <code>(iPad [4th generation Model A1458])</code> (iPad 4 Wi-Fi) and <code>(iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for Verizon])</code> (iPad 3 Global). Does the first one tell you if the device is Wi-Fi or a Wi-Fi+3G model? Does the second one tell you ''at all'' that it is an [[iPad 3]], or that it supports GSM? No.
:::Apple has a history of being inconsistent. For example, the iPad 3 Wi-Fi is referred to on ADC (and iTunes) as "iPad Wi-Fi (3rd generation)" while the iPad 3 GSM is referred to as "iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular [model for AT&T]". What happened to the "3rd generation"? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 20:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::We could always list as <code>iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)</code> etc instead if that would be better. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:13, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

::::Why is there a need to explicitly keep "Wi-Fi" in a key page's title? All you need is a way to distinguish what model it is from its other variants— the A1XXX model number does just that. It's not like we referred to the AppleTV3,2 as "Apple TV 3G (New Single-Core A5)" or something. And obviously, we can use common sense to address the 3rd generation iPad issue you brought up… Now you're just nitpicking. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 05:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Actually, I think we should wait until we see the firmware for iPhone 5c/5s and then decide. TBH, as [[User:5urd|5urd]] said, it is ok as it is but of course if once the new firmware is out it is more confusing, then we can think again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 14:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::Come to think of it, we can use a mix of both; we can keep the "Global" moniker, but drop the "GSM" moniker in favor of the A1XXX model number. (The "GSM" moniker is the one that's been bothering me.) I think this works well for the iPad 3 (which is actually split into "CDMA" and "Global—" it probably doesn't need to be done for this), iPad 4, iPad mini 1G, and iPhone 5, but this leaves the question of what to do for the iPhone 5C/5S. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

::::::That would look worse! If we are going to do it, we have to do it for '''''all'''''. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

:::::::What is the status on this now? --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 21:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::This discussion has stagnated, but I'm firing it up again— I want to fix this before the end of the year, so this can probably be seen as an ultimatum. Now that Apple has pushed a 7.1 beta to developers, we now know how Apple's splitting the new iPhones up— and it's by A1XXX model numbers still. :\ That's probably the path the wiki will go down, but I do have another idea. The other idea I have in mind is using the A1XXX model number for the cellular devices launched last year. But for this year's iPhones, the FCC ID is actually different between the two, so we could actually use that. Before this gets nitpicked on, the last letter can get changed to an "X" to signify that it's a wildcard of sorts. It's not a pretty solution so I do expect it to get shot down (hence why I'm going with the A1XXX model numbers unless everyone says otherwise), but I'm still throwing it out there in case everyone actually likes that. Everyone is welcome to suggest alternatives, but I '''will''' eliminate that GSM label before the year ends. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::That is worse, nobody knows the FCC ID off the top of their head. I would suggest "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" if anything. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:37, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Using "iPhone5,1" or "iPhone6,2" is even ''less'' friendly… The FCC ID can be looked up in Settings or the back of a device. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:06, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Well that is not the point. I say either use the firmware name or leave it alone. See what others thing though. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I currently plan on using the A1XXX model numbers— the FCC ID proposal was just thrown out there in the off chance that someone might like it. I'm not really a fan of it myself, but the FCC ID is probably the simplest way to figure out if it's an iPhone6,1 or iPhone6,2 since both have multiple A1XXX model numbers. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:19, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::I agree to get rid of the "GSM" name, as almost all iPhones support GSM. The Axxxx numbers would be nice, but as some phones have several numbers, like A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530 (what is actually different between them?) we can't use it. For the FCC-ID, we can't use that either, because for example the iPhone 5 with FCC-ID BCG-E2599A stands for the GSM/A1428 and also for the GSM+CDMA/A1429 version. So I suggest to either use the identifier (like iPhone2,1) or better the internal name (like n88ap). That would have the advantage to separate them further, because the iPhone 4 A1332 has two internal versions: iPhone3,1/n90ap and the iPhone3,2/n90bap. The bigger question is where you want to use this. That determines mainly the name. On all the key pages? Then it must be a name that is different between models that use different firmwares. And regarding key pages, maybe we should delete all the key pages from this wiki and move them into some database instead and provide a nice user interface and API around it and integrate that into the wiki somehow. That way we can change all pages with one simple edit. For the name, I prefer the internal name. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::We would have to edit key pages too. They should not be removed however. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 23:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I wasn't trying to say that we had to decide on one way to differentiate ''everything''; "GSM" does work fine for, say, the iPhone 4. The proposal I brought up today was using the FCC ID only for this year's (2013's) iPhones— last year's cellular devices would get the A1XXX model numbers (i.e. two different solutions for two different years). But as of right now, I like how using A1XXX model numbers sounds for all of the affected devices, mostly because that's the path Apple's going in their developer portal. Something like "iPhone 5s (Model A1457/A1518/A1528/A1530)" is admittedly a mouthful for this year's iPhones though. At the moment, I'm inquiring about how to label it on [[Firmware]] and such pages, but I'm sure the outcome can be adapted for key page titles as well. As for differences between the models, it seems to be the supported LTE bands. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:49, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I still think that unless it is "iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)" it will be complicated but on the other hand, I kind of like the idea that [[User:Http|http]] had, using the internal identifiers like this "iPhone 5 (n42ap)". The only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of a flood moving the key pages, although this can be done like 15 per day each or something. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::::::::::I'm pretty sure the only key page that exists for an A5 (or newer) device is [[Telluride 9A406 (iPhone 4S)]]. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::::That was an example. I know there are no more A5 pages, only the one you said and two beta for iPhone 4S. I just meant that it would show the design. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:36, November 21, 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals ==
Since this discussion has become extremely lengthy, here are the proposals (to my understanding) for changing the labels, each of which can be subject to changes (i.e. dropping the word "Model" from Proposal A). In an effort to conserve space (ironically, this still adds a significant amount of length), I only included a few models, which should give an idea of the proposal. Basically anything with an A5 or newer is involved. Feel free to edit this list if I missed or totally misinterpreted something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 03:25, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
# Proposal A (A1XXX numbers)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1456/A1532)
#* iPhone 5c (Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Model A1507/A1516/A1526/A1529)]]
# Proposal B (A1XXX + FCC ID)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1458)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1459)
#* iPad 4 (Model A1460)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1428)
#* iPhone 5 (Model A1429/A1442)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2644A)
#* iPhone 5c (BCG‑E2694X)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 A1458)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5 A1429/A1442)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c BCG‑E2694X)]]
# Proposal C (-AP Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (p101ap)
#* iPad 4 (p102ap)
#* iPad 4 (p103ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n41ap)
#* iPhone 5 (n42ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n48ap)
#* iPhone 5c (n49ap)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 4 p101ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n42ap)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c n49ap)]]
# Proposal D (iPhoneX,Y Identifier)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,4)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,5)
#* iPad 4 (iPad3,6)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,1)
#* iPhone 5 (iPhone5,2)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,3)
#* iPhone 5c (iPhone5,4)
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad3,4)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,2)]]
#* [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone5,4)]]

:I like this [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (3,4)]] or [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a iPad 4 (iPad3,4)]]. I see there are 4 ways to approach this;
1. Change every single device. 
2. Change just devices with different variants, iPad 2+, iPad mini+, iPhone 4, iPhone 5+. 
3. Change A5+ only (which I hate the idea of). 
4. Change nothing at all. 
--[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 09:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::My intention for this was to be a ''neutral'' (i.e. opinion-free) spot where all of the proposals were being mentioned, so people could easily see the proposed changes without any bias… v.v --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 20:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::TBH, I think it is better as it is, but I just stated my opinion that only A5+ would make in inconsistent. Though you could argue it is already, that is down to Apple and furthermore, just A5+ would still not eliminate iPhone 4 (GSM, GSM Rev A or CDMA). --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:07, November 22, 2013‎ (UTC)}}
:Do it like #4, and do them all. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 18:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
::::It will be a pain, but I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea as it would make it much much better in the end. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 16:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say A and B are impossible due to various numbers in the same model. I like C best. For variant C you could also leave away the "ap" at the end, because every model has that, so it would be even shorter. For D, that's simply longer names and these names are not used at many places, but I could live with that version as well. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:30, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
Taking into account everyone's thoughts on this, I think we'll probably go with option C. The wiki already uses the "-ap" identifiers for the model pages, and an identifier like "iPad3,4" may confuse someone into thinking it's a model of the [[iPad 3]]. (I would still like to use the A1XXX numbers since Apple does that, but nobody else seems to agree now…) I'll give this a few more days for any last words before acting on it. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 04:03, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::It '''will''' get changed before the year ends. I don't know why your opinion keeps changing, but I have already explained the reason for changing it. You even agreed that it needs to be changed. I'm still open to suggestions on what to change it to though. Keep in mind that the change will affect not only key pages, but also how the devices will be referred to throughout the wiki. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 19:34, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I know it will. I said it is fine to change. I like bot #3 and #4. Only point I must make is that I feel we should change all devices with multiple variants, including iPad Air and iPhone 4. This way, it is consistent and also removes GSM etc altogether. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 19:48, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with Adam, if you're going to change some of them then change all of them. This includes iPods. Whatever the outcome, be consistent. As for the outcome itself, I really think we should just use device identifiers (iPhone2,1). That's what we're actually differentiating by, so it only makes sense to refer to devices by them. I don't think there would be any confusion, especially considering we'll keep the name of the device next to it regardless. Barring that, the next best option is ***ap. The other options don't make any sense considering modern devices. --[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 10:54, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]]'s idea, though I do not mind if we do every device or just ones with multiple variants, as long as that included pre A5 (iPhone 4) too. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:34, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

== "GSM" Replacement Proposals (cont.) ==
So this entire discussion came up because we need to remove "GSM" from models, because there are many models nowadays where the non-GSM model or Global or whatever model, all support GSM. One suggestion was the FCC number, but I think we already agreed that this is out of discussion (only used within USA and nobody refers to this number). So we have to use either
*The Axxxx number (like A1332 for the iPhone 4). This is how Apple identifies their devices.
*The ap number (like n94ap or just short N94). This is the internal name and used in internal references, like in the [[iBEC]] or [[iBSS]] filenames within an [[IPSW]]. (This is also what iH8sn0w has on his stickers on the devices.)
*The 1,2 number (like iPad1,1 for the iPad 1G). This identifier is used in the [[IPSW]] filenames.
There are several issues with using one over the other:
*Some devices (iPad 1G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, iPhone 5c, iPhone 5s to be exact) have multiple Axxxx numbers for the same ap number/1,2 number. For example the iPad 1G: A1219 (WiFi model) and A1337 (GSM model) both have k48ap / iPad1,1. So only the Axxxx number could be used to replace the "GSM" identifier.
*The iPhone 4 has for A1332 two ap numbers/1,2 numbers: A1332 stands for both n90ap/iPhone3,1 and also for n90bap/iPhone3,2.
*The iPod touch 5G has the same 1,2 number for two ap numbers/Axxxx numbers: iPod5,1 stands for both A1421/n78ap and also for A1509/n78aap.
I understand the point from [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] somehow that we should make it consistent and change it everywhere in the same manner. The question is where to change what. So where do we use these terms?
*The biggest affected change would be the key pages, so any change there should be carefully considered. Currently we use something like: "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". So the discussion here is just about the change in the brackets. For the devices where no different hardware versions exist, I think the current naming is ok. So let's just continue using that. Only where different (sub-)devices exist for the same main model (like for the iPhone 5c) and they require a different firmware file, then we need to specify it. So we need to add something after the "iPhone 5c" to specify the difference. For older devices, we should leave it as it is, because it works very well there. For example the iPad 1G WiFi and GSM require different firmware, but can be differentiated that way. And we can't use the ap number, because both versions use k48ap, respectively iPad1,1. So I think we should leave the old devices as they are. For newer devices, like the iPhone 5c, there are only two variations for the firmware, but six different Axxxx numbers and we don't want to list all of them in the firmware name. We also cannot use "GSM" for the reason mentioned at the introduction. I would prefer to use the ap number there, but that yields to problems. In case of the iPod touch 5G, we have two models (A1421/n78ap and also A1509/n78aap). Fortunately both use the same firmware, so we don't have to specify anything. But if Apple would release an additional model that would require a different firmware, we would have to specify the name even here and we can't add a name like "n78ap+n78aap". The name iPod5,1 there seems to be the obvious choice, as it is contained in the ipsw name already, so it is unlikely that Apple will change that. The only question is the format then. My choice would be to keep it short, something like "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c [5,4])" instead of the current "InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 5c Global)". We shouldn't repeat the word "iPhone" there. And we shouldn't remove the "5c" of the original name.
*We also have some hardware lists, for example on the key pages titles where we list under iPad 2: Wi-Fi, GSM, CDMA, Wi-Fi (A). They link directly to our ap-pages, for example the "Wi-Fi (A)" name links to "k93aap". I think we don't need to change this. For the iPhone 5c, we have GSM and Global and they also link to the ap-pages. The link remains there, so we would only change the name. I suggest to use the same short name as in the key page extension, so something like my suggested "[5,4]" for example (instead of "GSM").
*On the [[Models]] page, we have the column "Variant", which also lists "GSM" and "Global" etc. That would also need to change. I suggest to leave it for older devices where "GSM" is a valid differentiation. For newer devices we might list the bands it supports or something else.
*On hardware pages, like [[iPhone]], we also have names and links in the title bar. For devices that have different sub-devices (like the iPhone 4 and iPhone 5/5c/5s) I suggest to rename the title names to the ap-names, as they link to the respective page. I would not change the title "iPhone 3G" to "N82ap" although it links there. So this change would only apply to sub-titles.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 00:26, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:Include iPhone 4 in the change and use same format everywhere on the wiki. I agree that we do not need to change devices with only one variant such as iPhone 3GS. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree on that. 3GS, 3G and the 1st iPhone are anyway devices where I do not see too many wiki-related changes in the future.--[[User:M2m|M2m]] ([[User talk:M2m|talk]]) 09:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
:I don't like how the abbreviated form of "iPad3,4" looks— I understand wanting to keep "iPad 4" in the name, but I can't come up with alternatives besides going with only the identifier. (Another issue is that MediaWiki's markup parser doesn't seem to like square brackets in links— I tried using <code><nowiki><nowiki /></nowiki></code>.) Having thought it over for a few days, I'm more receptive to changing all multi-variant devices (i.e. including the iPhone 4), but my concern about the Recent changes getting flooded with page moves still exists. The page moves should be done on "quiet" days, when the wiki doesn't see much activity. That being said, this is my understanding of the proposed changes. Does everyone agree with the following?
:* On pages like [[iPhone]], the variant labels will be replaced with the identifier, e.g. iPhone3,1/iPhone3,2/iPhone3,3. (An exception will probably need to be made for the iPad1,1. The "Internal Name" row should also be modified because there will be duplicated information.)
:* On [[Models]], the variant labels will be replaced with something else for the iPhone 5 and newer. (I feel like there are too many LTE bands to list in such a spot, but I don't have any better ideas.)
:* On pages such as [[Firmware]] and [[Jailbreak]], labels will be changed to things like "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" and "iPad 4 (iPad3,4)." Single-variant devices like the Apple TV 2G will remain as-is.
:* The key pages will be moved to a different title, to resemble the following.
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (AppleTV3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (Apple TV AppleTV3,1)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad2,4)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPad 2 iPad2,4)]]
:** <del>[[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone3,1)]]</del> [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)]]
:** [[InnsbruckTaos 11B554a (iPod touch 5G)]]
:Do let me know if I missed something. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 23:57, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
::I agree with your idea [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]], but make every page use iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) etc. Of course if pages use iPhone 4 (GSM) now, change that to iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1) or iPhone 4 (3,1). I would suggest moving 10 pages per day for the iPhone 4 to avoid flooding. I do not want some pages to include the AP identifier and some others iPhone3,1 for example. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Several comments:
*The square brackets were just an idea, nothing agreed on that yet. And yes, let's forget this idea if it has problems with MediaWiki.
*The beginning of the name should remain, otherwise we're getting inconsistent with other pages. I agree with [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] on this. To keep it short, my favorite would be something like "iPhone 4 (3,1)" then. But to make it more clear, "iPhone4 (iPhone3,1)" is also ok to me. If you wanted to leave the first part away and just use "iPhone3,1", then we would have to rename ALL pages (that's also an option).
*Regarding flooding, I prefer that we do all changes at once, at an agreed date/time, done by [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. Maybe in two steps: first step to change the few hardware pages plus one page of each device of the key pages. In the second step the rest. This would ensure that any misunderstandings get catched in the first step, before all pages are renamed. I don't like to have 20 edits per day that I have to go through. Better all at once, but only after agreement of all.
*Yes, we can do iPhone 4 too, if that't the only missing one. It was a misunderstanding on my part for iPad GSM/WiFi, as this doesn't have different firmwares (only on hardware pages needed).
*Regarding the proposed listing of the bands on the [[Models]] page, Variant column, we could only list the bands that are different to make it short.

Can we list here what pages would be affected by the changes? Feel free to edit this list here within my comment. Here's what I have in mind:
*[[Models]]
*[[Apple TV]], [[iPad]], [[iPad mini]], [[iPhone]], [[iPod touch]]
*[[Firmware Keys]]
*[[Firmware]], [[Beta Firmware]]
*[[Jailbreak]]
*[[Application Processor]]
*[[Main Page]] - for Application Processors and Baseband Devices.
*[[:Category:Baseband]] - some pages state models and also the baseband devices, such as [[MDM6600]].
*[[Template:Keys]]
*[[P0sixspwn]]
*[[:Timeline]]
*[[SHSH]]
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (like [[Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 GSM)]]), total 69 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 GSM (A) (like [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4372q (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A)]]), total 21 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 4 CDMA (like [[BrightonMaps 10B329 (iPhone 4 CDMA)]]), total 50 existing pages
*key pages: iPhone 5 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPhone 5c and 5s (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 Wi-Fi)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 GSM (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 GSM)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 CDMA (like [[Durango 8G4 (iPad 2 CDMA)]]), total 5 existing pages
*key pages: iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 CDMA (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 3 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad 4 Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad Air Cellular (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini GSM (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini Global (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Wi-Fi (nonexistent)
*key pages: iPad mini 2G Cellular (nonexistent)
The key pages would get moved without redirect and all references updated. The references should also be in this list above. Add it to the list if I forgot anything.
--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 15:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes that is fine. I said the 10 a day to avoid a big flood, but I do not mind either way. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 15:13, January 1, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::Looks good. I amended the list to include the iPads as well. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:51, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::So most of you seem to agree on the the generic change now. But what is missing is the exact naming. We have three variations still in discussion:
:::::#"iPhone 4 (3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)"
:::::#"iPhone 4 3,1"
:::::#"iPhone 4 iPhone3,1"
:::::I just noticed that we cannot use the round brackets, because this entire part is already enclosed in round brackets - otherwise we would have nested brackets and in grammar I think you have to use square brackets which are not allowed in MediaWiki. So this leaves us with #3 and #4. #3 looks silly without the brackets, so we probably have to use #4 as [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] suggested. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:55, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::I agree with #4, looks better as I feel that #3 needs some sort of brackets if we used that. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]])
::::::Wow, time really flies when you sleep all day. I've missed a ''lot''. Ok. I'm happy we decided to use the firmware moniker instead of something else. Personally, I don't like #1 because it just looks weird IMO. In addition, #1 and #2 would require the use of brackets (<code>(iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>) which would require the use of <code><nowiki/></code> all over the place, and that will get not only ugly, but annoying. I agree #3 looks weird. However, #4 just looks redundent. I personally would like just <code>iPhone3,1</code>, but if I would have to put my vote on one of those last two, it would be #4. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 08:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::One last comment: We could also just use "iPhone3,1" (leaving the leading "iPhone 4" completely away). That would have two advantages and two disadvantages:
:::::::*+ shorter
:::::::*+ future-proof; if we ever decide to rename the rest as well, this is the way to name it
:::::::*- somehow inconsistent with non-ambiguous other key pages (although ambiguous and non-ambiguous pages are different now anyway)
:::::::*- less easy to understand from the name what device it is (but the iOS version is also not directly visible)
:::::::--[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 11:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::To me, that makes it worse. Why can we not use the rounded "()" brackets? I mean, it will only be duplicated in the key page urls, in which if it must be, just do "iPhone 4 iPhone3,1". Does not seem too bad to me. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::We ''don't want to'' use parenthesis because then we get double parenthesis (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 (3,1))</code>). We would have to use braces (<code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [3,1])</code>), but MediaWiki chokes when there's braces in a link unless you use <code><nowiki/></code>; and that would mean ''everywhere'' there's a firmware link. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::That ''is'' what I suggested in my reply... As for your first disadvantage, it only applies to the iPads where Apple has gotten confusing. Actually, now that I think of that, option #4 above does look nice. However, I still don't like the redundency of having <code>iPhone</code> in there twice. And as I said before, options #1 and #3 just look weird. So we're stuck at either redundency or looking weird. But then again, it wouldn't be redundent for the non-existent iPad key page links where Apple decided to be annoying with their firmware monikers. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 13:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Could we not just use the parenthesis but just not in the key page URL's? I mean, "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" but in the urls for key pages, <code>Telluride 9A334 (iPhone_4_iPhone3,1)</code>? That seems fine here. The underscores are currently there anyway. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::This seems fine to me… Well, aside from the underscores. Other than that, we're actually already doing the same thing until the changes are implemented. (Key pages say "(iPhone 4 GSM)" while other parts of the wiki say "iPhone 4 (GSM model).") --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::I think that "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" does look the nicest, and I don't really feel like it's redundant. I also like the idea of just saying 'iPhone3,1'. If either of those options doesn't work, it might be good to do something like "iPhone 4; iPhone3,1" or "iPhone 4 | iPhone3,1".--[[User:CompilingEntropy|CompilingEntropy]] ([[User talk:CompilingEntropy|talk]]) 16:46, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::The underscores were stated due to the key page URL's use that. I did not mean use that throughout. Was just to give an example, [[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 13:16, January 2, 2014‎ (UTC)
::::::::::So we have to decide between
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 iPhone3,1)" (name on link could be "Telluride 9A334 (iPhone 4 [iPhone3,1])" or whatever fits best in the context)
::::::::::#"Telluride 9A334 (iPhone3,1)"
::::::::::I would prefer #2 (for advantages/disadvantages see list above), but could also live with the other one. Votes? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:06, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::I would prefer #1 because it would be more consistent. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:14, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Count my vote for #2. I could go either way, but option #2 looks nicer. But just to double-check (yet again), we ''are'' using "iPhone 4 (iPhone3,1)" in places like [[Firmware]]'s headings, right? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 18:19, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::Headings/titles/links: we didn't decide on that, but I think we can put whatever fits best in the context of a page. So that's a 'yes'. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 23:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

== Key page template ==
I actually like the idea of a database to an extent. I bet I could put together an extension that creates a [[Special:SpecialPages|special page]] that allows read access to everyone (and r/w access to users). Any edits to the key "pages" wouldn't cause a [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] log. If we ever needed to update the layout, we would just need to update the extension. We could even have an API.
The only limitation is that updates to the extension would require either [[User:geohot|George]] or [[User:Dialexio|Alex]] needing to upload the fix. If we were to set up an external site, then all links to it would need to be wrapped with <code>...</code>.
Maybe a simple extension that takes links and redirects you to the external site? That could work. Like, we would have a link to, say, <code>[[<nowiki/>Special:Keys/iPad1,1/9A405]]</code> which would give an HTTP <code>301 Moved Permanently</code> header to, say, <code><nowiki>http://ioskeys.com/iPad1,1/9A405</nowiki></code>. Granted, someone would have to pay for the domain, but it would solve this problem. I may be able to pay for the domain if I make enough money by the time I finish writing everything. Any opposition? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 16:48, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:I do not like the idea. I like the idea of the database to a degree, but I think that the pages should remain on this wiki. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 17:03, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't see this solving any problem— the backlash against changing the key page template was because of (unnecessary?) changes to the arguments, and the frequency of how often such changes were being proposed/applied. How would a database prevent it? For instance, let's say the database columns are all decided on. Suddenly, it's decided that SHA-1 hashes should be added as well, or perhaps "VFDecryptKey" will be renamed to "FSKey." People submitting keys would still be bothered with having to adjust for those changes. --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:40, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::That with the database is something I'll implement anyway (if not someone else is faster, as I'm quite busy). I just threw that in here as it might solve the problem of the frequent template updates (which is/was wrong anyway). From there it would be easy to create the VFDecrypt page with an overview link or lists of missing keys and that stuff, so the wiki would not need any direct links. But it would mean that we either completely remove all keys here from the wiki and embrace that solution or have them still duplicate (which then doesn't solve the problem). Dialexio: renaming columns can be handled without interface changes, but that's another topic. So let's forget about this database thing for now and we can discuss again when I have something. We certainly don't want to add extensions for that. So back to the discussion about the renaming: If I understood this correctly, you only want to rename A5+ devices and therefore no key pages would be affected. Is my understanding correct? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 22:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::As long as the pages stay on this wiki, I do not mind. Although, a database could be pointless as with only 50 more pages to edit for the new format, there is no planned new format/changes again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 22:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
::::About the renaming, that is correct; I'm only interested in changing the cellular labels on A5/+ devices. (Well, the iPad 2 can remain as-is.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::Oh, well that would just make things more complicated/inconsistent. We should do all or none. About the template idea, there is also no need as it is not likely we will change the format again. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 00:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::Do we really need to CHANGE THE FORMAT 50 TIMES IN A ROW? The old one before everything was messed with worked fine enough. [[User:Winocm|Winocm]] ([[User talk:Winocm|talk]]) 18:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::It was actually one change, which was completed. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

==Login prompt revision suggestion==
I wrote a suggestion here: [[MediaWiki talk:Loginprompt]] (since I don't have permission to edit [[MediaWiki:Loginprompt]] directly) - I'd be interested in whether it sounds like a good idea to other people. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 01:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

==Homepage suggestions==
Under "Application Development", what about linking to [http://iphonedevwiki.net/index.php/Main_Page iPhoneDevWiki]? It's also a community-edited technical resource, and it links to this wiki. It could be helpful to add a little more detail to "Get [[up to speed]] in the community.", like this: "Get [[up to speed]] in the community - learn about how jailbreaks work." Under "Definitions", it could be helpful to list all the firmware tags in one line or sub-list, similar to how Jailbreak is organized next to Tethered jailbreak and Untethered jailbreak, both to save space and help readers understand the list. --[[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 23:01, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
:A link to the iPhoneDevWiki sounds good. I wonder if we should have an "External Links" or "Other Resources" section to include links to other sites (such as the [http://blog.iphone-dev.org/ iPhone Dev Team blog]) though. As for the "Up to Speed" page, I feel like the entire page could be reworked a bit— and perhaps even receive a new, clearer name ([[Introduction]]? [[Preface]]? Or something else?)— the current name makes it sound like it's for people that last paid attention to jailbreaking when the App Store didn't exist. And yeah, moving the IMG3 tags to a sub-list sounds like a really good idea. (Admittedly, I actually don't care for its inclusion in the first place, but that's just a personal preference.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 00:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
::There's already [[Useful Links]] with some links to other core community resources (which could be updated and rearranged) - I was just thinking that it'd be especially useful to link to iPhoneDevWiki prominently since it's likely for TheiPhoneWiki visitors to also be interested in relatively-organized technical information about development. Changing the name of "Up to Speed" sounds fine to me too - that page didn't get much attention since 2008 until I sort of commandeered it to serve as an "intro to jailbreaking" page. :) It could be renamed "getting started", as in "how to get started on learning about research into iOS devices, especially security research (such as jailbreaks)". [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Also I'd love to see a dedicated section for "Good tasks for new editors", where we could maintain a list of relatively easy/straightforward suggested edits that wouldn't require vast technical knowledge, like updating that links page. Where would that go? Add it as a sub-section of [[The iPhone Wiki:Current events]] and link that section from the homepage or something? Or make a new page? [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 00:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

==What is 0x5265c384 in the boot process?==
Does anybody know where <code>0x5265c384</code> points to in the boot process? I haven't been able to find anything on it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 20:14, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

==License for contributions==
This wiki has never had an official license for contributions. Now, IANAL, but IIRC, this means that you can't use ''anything'' posted here unless it qualifies as fair-use. What I propose is that we set a license and add a notice that states that any contributions after a set date are to be licensed under that license (that's kindof a mouthful). I think we should use the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC-by-SA 3.0] as [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|Wikipedia uses it]], but that's just me. Any ideas? --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 19:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Well, the edit info already says all this:
Please note that all contributions to The iPhone Wiki may be edited, altered, or
removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly,
then do not submit it here.
You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public
domain or similar free resource (see The [[:The iPhone Wiki:Copyrights|iPhone Wiki:Copyrights]] for details). '''Do not'''
'''submit copyrighted work without permission!'''
For me, that's enough. I don't need a 50 page license. But if you want to formalize this more, go ahead. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 20:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
:Sounds good. It's good practice to have an official license, just in case any disputes happen someday, and to ensure that it's OK to copy text over to Wikipedia (for example). [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 21:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Future plans==
Now that I have SSH access, I've begun working on making several, somewhat-overdue changes to the wiki. The Renameuser extension was reinstated, so admins can now rename accounts. If you have another account, that can also get merged into your current account. If you happen to get locked out from both your account and the email used is no longer active, I can run a script to reset your password. I've also begun implementing a very noticeable change— as users of the Vector skin have noticed, the iOS 6-based theming is gone. It's a semi-temporary move though; it's going into its own skin, because… you know, choice is cool. People who like the Vector skin may not have liked the iOS theming, especially since IE 9 and lower didn't display it completely accurately. Therefore, it's going into its own theme. Once that's done I also plan on making a separate iOS 7-based skin. If there are any further thoughts or suggestions on how to improve the wiki, do let me know! --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 22:18, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

==Banner Replacement?==
I kinda feel like the banner on the front page is getting a little stale, so I'm interested in seeing it replaced. I tossed a proposal [https://twitter.com/Draxelf/status/408295008794845184 on Twitter] a couple of days ago (which is admittedly plain, but Myriad Set…), but I haven't heard any opinions on replacing the banner. Are there any thoughts on this matter? --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 17:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Or, [http://imgur.com/wJFqPl1 this]. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Looks nice in Myriad! More professional. [[User:Britta|Britta]] ([[User talk:Britta|talk]]) 04:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

==Date Format==
I see that [[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] started to unify the date formats in this wiki. While I like this to be consistent, actually we should've talked about what format to use before changing it. I like the d_mon_yyyy format though. I also saw that he removed the <code>&nbsp;</code> between the date parts on the [[iFaith]] page that I added once purposefully. The reason was that when making the browser window small (or on the iPhone) that the date wraps to two lines, which is almost always undesired. The question is if we should do that everywhere too? Additionally, as we now seem to have a "standard" here, we should document it, so that new users know what format to use. -- [[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 17:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:I just made it consistent. If you want the <code>&nbsp;</code> back, feel free to add it. I removed it as it did nothing (previewing on OS X). We should use the format I used throughout the wiki and not Dec 23, 2013 etc. --[[User:IAdam1n|iAdam1n]] ([[User talk:IAdam1n|talk]]) 18:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
::<code>&nbsp;</code> stands for "'''n'''on-'''b'''reaking '''sp'''ace". It is essentially a space, but with a property that prevents word wrap from occurring between the two words it's between. Look at [[Firmware Keys]] on a small enough screen (1024 across should do it). Your browser should preserve the space between the date "words". Now, go into the edit page and remove the <code>&nbsp;</code> from everything in one table. Your browser will now word wrap the date "words". --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
:What I actually want to do is use <code>{{[[Template:Start date|start date]]}}</code> instead of plain dates in areas where dates are used as a statistic; for example, [[Firmware]], [[Firmware Keys]], [[SHSH]], [[Timeline]], etc. Places where dates are used to record when something happened, for example on [[evasi0n7]], "On 28 December 2013...", should use the date flat out in the source. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

== Template documentation ==
Whenever using templates that are copied here from Wikipedia, I almost always forget the parameters of the template. I then have to open Wikipedia and search for the template. What I want to do it copy the template documentation from Wikipedia here. To work around the licensing issue, we can create our own template that you would include at the bottom of the copied documentation that says the documentation comes from Wikipedia (because Wikipedia uses [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Text of Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License|CC-BY-SA 3.0]] which says our copied text must be under CC-BY-SA 3.0 ''and'' attribute Wikipedia and her editors. I can write the text for license template. Any ideas? Any opposition? If not, I'll begin in a few days. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 00:04, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Ph0enix

2014-01-13T18:24:09Z

Ph0enix:

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[SochiVail 11D5099e (iPhone_4_CDMA) | iOS 7.1 b3]] (11D5099e)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User:Ph0enix

2014-01-13T18:23:25Z

Ph0enix:

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[SochiVail 11D5099e (iPhone_4_CDMA)]] (11D5099e)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2013-10-23T20:14:11Z

Ph0enix: /* anybody know? */

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2013-10-23T20:13:31Z

Ph0enix:

User:Ph0enix

2013-08-21T00:50:39Z

Ph0enix: /* iDevices */

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|iPhone 4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4449d (iPhone 4 CDMA)]] (11A4449d)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User:Ph0enix

2013-08-21T00:50:22Z

Ph0enix: /* iDevices */

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[N92ap|4]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4449d (iPhone 4 CDMA)]] (11A4449d)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User:Ph0enix

2013-08-21T00:48:54Z

Ph0enix: /* iDevices */

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[n92ap|4S]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[InnsbruckVailPrime 11A4449d (iPhone 4 CDMA)]] (11A4449d)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2013-07-22T19:56:58Z

Ph0enix:

{{Talk Archive|2010|2011|2012}}
__NOTOC__
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
== iPhone-Elite ==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

== Boot-args cleanup ==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

== The iPhone Wiki re-design ==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

== Dump page ==
I have been thinking, should we make [[Dump]] to list [[N88ap/Device_Tree]] etc? We seem to have quite a few dumps but it seems silly not to have them all on one page. What do you all think? --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 17:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
hello i would like to be added to the group of hackers for my work with the private dev team and chronic dev team. as well as my release of the phoenix semi untethered --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
: Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
:: no phyrrus9 a team member of mine found the Vulneability however i am the one who implemented it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2013-07-22T19:56:03Z

Ph0enix:

{{Talk Archive|2010|2011|2012}}
__NOTOC__
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
== iPhone-Elite ==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

== Boot-args cleanup ==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

== The iPhone Wiki re-design ==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

== Dump page ==
I have been thinking, should we make [[Dump]] to list [[N88ap/Device_Tree]] etc? We seem to have quite a few dumps but it seems silly not to have them all on one page. What do you all think? --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 17:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
hello i would like to be added to the group of hackers for my work with the private dev team and chronic dev team. as well as my release of the phoenix semi untethered --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
: Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
: no phyrrus9 a team member of mine found the Vulneability however i am the one who implemented it. --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]])

The iPhone Wiki:Community portal

2013-07-22T19:55:35Z

Ph0enix:

{{Talk Archive|2010|2011|2012}}
__NOTOC__
{{see also|Unsolved problems}}
== iPhone-Elite ==
I think we should include all this old stuff before it gets lost: [http://code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/ code.google.com/p/iphone-elite/]. I mean the wiki articles there. Most infos should be already here, but I'm sure a lot of things are missing too.
--[[User:Http|http]] 15:02, 26 June 2012 (MDT)

== Boot-args cleanup ==
We need to clean up the boot-args pages. First the technical part: What I understand is that iBoot loads the kernel. And when loading it, it can pass some parameters to select certain behavior. So this only works with an iBoot or bootrom exploit. I understand that in earlier firmware versions there was simply an iBoot variable, but that doesn't exist or work anymore, now passing theses args requires a different or patched iBoot. There are various parameters in different kernel versions. The description for these arguments is scattered over various places:
*[[Kernel#Boot-Args]] A section with the latest boot arguments list. This should be a short introduction and having a link "main article".
*[[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] separate page for boot arguments, but mainly for the iBoot variable that doesn't exist any longer
*[{{FULLURL:Boot arguments|redirect=no}} Boot arguments] (redirect)
*[[:Talk:Restore_Mode]] describing the iBoot variable problem
*Various pages referencing boot-args, like [[Research: Re-allowing unsigned ramdisks and boot-args with the 2.* iBoot]] (here we should have a link on the second title)
*My earlier comment [[:Talk:Kernel#boot-args]]
*This comment here.
So what do we want to do about this mess? I suggest to move the current [[Kernel]] content to the redirect page [[Boot arguments]] (or to another new page, maybe [[boot-args]]). The current content of [[Boot-args (iBoot variable)]] and all other content should get merged into there. Then change all references to this new page and on the [[Kernel]] page write just something short with "main article there". What do you think? --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 21:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:I like [[Boot Arguments]]. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 02:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
::One addition: Maybe we should use [[boot-args]] as the main page, because all links are written like that. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 07:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

== The iPhone Wiki re-design ==
The design of the iPhone wiki is now quite old and I think it should be updated. I made a [http://oi42.tinypic.com/30ib9y8.jpg concept]. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I disagree. If anything add an iPhone 5 to the logo but everything else is ok. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 11:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:I wouldn't change the logo to an iPhone 5, especially with iOS 7 and a new iPhone (that will probably look the same as the 5, admittedly) around the corner. I contemplated updating the CSS for iOS 7's UI but decided not to because of the UI's supposed volatility (during the beta period) and I don't have a live version to toy around with. (I personally don't like its current state, but that's not a factor in why I'm not changing it yet.) --[[User:Dialexio|Dialexio]] ([[User talk:Dialexio|talk]]) 16:25, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::Can we not do flat? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::This is what I was thinking. When iOS 7 finally comes out, we could change the CSS to look like that instead. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::iOS 7 looks ugly. We do not want it like that. Maybe a bit more modern but nothing much. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 21:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::''You'' may not want it like that. That's your opinion. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 01:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::We could make a poll, and see if most users agree or disagree. --[[User:Jaggions|Jaggions]] ([[User talk:Jaggions|talk]]) 10:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:The idea looks nice. But before we make any changes, let's wait until iOS7 comes out. And I'd prefer to just add another skin instead (if possible). I'm still using the classic MonoBook skin by the way. You shouldn't impose design changes to everyone. --[[User:Http|http]] ([[User talk:Http|talk]]) 14:38, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
::The problem with skins is that geohot needs to set them up... An idea I have is that we copy the Vector skin verbatim to a new skin (<code>iOS6</code>) and move the modifications (not general stuff) to [[Mediawiki:iOS6.css]]. Then we can do another verbatim copy to <code>iOS7</code> and modify [[Mediawiki:iOS7.css]]. We could then set the default skin to either <code>iOS6</code> or <code>iOS7</code> so you don't need to be logged in to see them like currently. Then if someone doesn't like them, like you, just change your settings to your preferred skin. The only way around needing geohot is if he opens up the credentials to FTP or whatever to someone. --[[User:5urd|5urd]] ([[User talk:5urd|talk]]) 21:17, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I like [[User:5urd|5urd]]'s suggestion. --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 22:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

== Dump page ==
I have been thinking, should we make [[Dump]] to list [[N88ap/Device_Tree]] etc? We seem to have quite a few dumps but it seems silly not to have them all on one page. What do you all think? --[[User:Adaminsull|adaminsull]] ([[User talk:Adaminsull|talk]]) 17:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

==Hacker page==
hello i would like to be added to the group of hackers for my work with the private dev team and chronic dev team. as well as my release of the phoenix semi untethered --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
: Did you find any exploits? --[[User:Haifisch|Haifisch]] ([[User talk:Haifisch|talk]]) 18:54, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
no phyrrus9 a team member of mine found the Vulneability however i am the one who implemented it.

User:Ph0enix

2013-07-22T19:33:05Z

Ph0enix:

__NOTOC__
<div style="width:25%; float:right; background:#eef3f9; -webkit-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -moz-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); -o-box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); box-shadow:0 1px 10px rgba(20,20,20,.4); border-radius:6px; padding:8px; margin:8px 8px 8px 16px;" class="plainlinks">
== Contact ==
* '''[http://twitter.com/ph0enix_dev Twitter]''' ('''@ph0enix_dev''') [quickest]
* '''[https://plus.google.com/u/0/103408888484782836623 Google+]'''
* '''[[wikipedia:Skype|Skype]]''' ('''j3rr14''')
* '''[mailto:lamaboy99@gmail.com E-mail]'''
== Aliases ==
* '''ph0enix''' (current)
* '''c1rcu17'''
* '''j3rr14'''
</div>
Well i'm Jerrick, Jerrick Davis to be exact. I started iOS development in 2011 when I started the iPad Dev Team with [[User:5urd|5urd]] which we later merged with The Private Dev Team. The Private Dev Team was flawed in many ways and disbanded in early 2012, After which I decided to do Android Development. In Mid 2013 (at the time I am Writing this 7/21/13) I have decided to return to iOS Hacking.
== [[iDevice]]s ==
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:center;"
|-
! rowspan="2" | Device
|-
! [[n81ap|iPod touch 4g]]
! [[n92ap|4S]]

|-
! Received
| Dec 24th 2010
| July 22 2013
|-
! Cost
| (Gift)
| US$200
|-
! Size
| colspan="2" | 8GiB
|-
! Starting FW
| [[Baker 8B117 (iPod touch 4G)|4.1]] (8B117)
| [[Brighton 10B329 (iPhone 4S)|6.1.3]] (10B329)
|-
! Sold or Lost
| Gave to Brother for Birthday
| {{n/a}}

|-
! Jailbroken?
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|-
! Owned
| {{yes}}
| {{yes}}
|}

User talk:IAdam1n

2013-07-22T18:36:02Z

Ph0enix:

If you have any questions/concerns about an edit I make, please use this talk page to discuss it or [mailto:adaminsull@me.com email] me.
{{Talk Archive|2012|2013}}

hello i would like to be added to the group of hackers for my work with the private dev team and chronic dev team. as well as my release of the phoenix semi untethered --[[User:Ph0enix|Ph0enix]] ([[User talk:Ph0enix|talk]]) 18:36, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

User talk:IAdam1n

2013-07-22T18:35:00Z

Ph0enix: